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Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

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Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#201

Post by masklinn »

thescriptkiddie wrote: post #126

An interesting anecdote, but I've never understood why anyone would willingly drive a car (electric or otherwise) such a long distance. The longest I've ever driven in a single trip was a bit over 750 km, and I think I slept for 16 hours straight after I arrived. The next time I took that same trip, I rode the train instead.

Sometimes the train trip is absolute hell e.g. you need to switch a lot with significant delay inbetween, and the trip ends up significantly longer by car.

You can use the train trip to read (or sleep if you can do that, I can't) but you also can't really put your music or podcasts and you have to deal with other people. The train changes can also be very stressful.

Then there's traveling at your destination, if you need a car at your arrival the advantage of the train plummet, whether you need to rent one (which is expensive) or borrow one (which imposes on your hosts).

FWIW that's exactly why despite being in europe after years of taking the train when I go back to see my family I ended up now renting a car instead (I usually live car-free):

* both my own home and my family are a bit out-of-the-way, there's public transport (though not ideal) around my own home but none at the destination so I'd need to impose e.g. be fetched at the train station, with regular issues of delays and friends

* by train the entire trip takes about 8 hours, with 6 transport changes (some rather annoying / stressful), by car I can take a more direct route so it only takes 0530, and I can stop when I want (I usually end up stopping twice and taking between 0600 and 06:30)

* by train there is no real independence unless I rent a car anyway, I just end up bothering to go see the rest of the family, meanwhile renting a car lets me more actively help

* even if I don't rent a car at the destination, the financial gain of the train is basically nil, the train is rather expensive unless I take a slow train and basically need two days to make the trip

* and finally carrying shit in the train is a pain in the ass, both ways, I can easily load presents or stuff in a rental car, and bring comfort food or whatever back, there is no space premium of any sort

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#202

Post by teorema »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #104
lttlrck wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few hundred dollars per year increase (at the pump or registration fees) still makes financial sense for an awful lot of people.

As long as you use taxes to internalize the cost of those emissions for people who don't want to wait an extra 15 minutes to refuel (and those funds go into air source carbon removal), that's a fine solution. At the rate at which EVs are selling [1], it seems the wait is not an impediment to ownership. It's important those who don't want to wait (and require liquid fuels because of that) don't put that burden (carbon…

... or you incentivize the wait by decreasing cost.

Sometimes I feel like these discussions about EVs are strangely divorced from most people's lives. We will likely make our next purchase an EV purchase, and I think the cost of waiting on long trips probably has to be considered against other annoyances of ICEs, but the economics of this are a major reason more people don't switch to EVs. Even the cheapest ones still cant compete against the ICE market as a whole, especially when you consider the used vehicles that will be in circulation for some time.

Adding costs will just make it more difficult for people to afford anything.

If people want EVs to take off, they need to incentivize purchasing them, not tax the ubiquitous alternative. If the carbon costs are real, manifest it in decreased costs for the alternative. Otherwise it's all theory.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#204

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

gorgoiler wrote: post #173
jmpman wrote: post #98

I just did a 2 day 2000 mile trip in my long range model 3. Total charging costs were around $100, which didn’t include two stops where the superchargers were free (network connectivity problems?). Required a total of 13 supercharging stops. Each stop was between 20min to 45min. I started off completely full, and charged overnight at a Tesla destination charger, (so, 14 stops?). Roughly half the cost of the article’s…

In the UK an ancient law says it is legal to pee against the rear wheel of your carriage. Don’t try “googling” the validity of this law. The mainstream (ahem) media anti-public-disorder industrial complex seems to have polluted cyberspace with articles falsely claiming this law is a myth. Stand up for your rights and pee on your wheels. /s See also: British women having the right to urinate in a policeman’s helmet if…

Is it possible to drive 1000 miles in one direction in Britain?

Edit to add: nope, The greatest distance between two points is 968.0 km (601+1⁄2 mi) (between Land's End, Cornwall and John o' Groats, Caithness), 838 miles (1,349 km) by road.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#205

Post by aix1 »

watt wrote: post #194
chrisseaton wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having no oil changes adds up in savings. You probably don’t need to change your oil as often as you are, if it’s registering as an expense at all. Check what the manufacturer actually says - for example my manufacturer says don’t bother changing for two years. Lots of Americans driving the exact same cars change their oil every three months for no reason.

Actually this is exactly about expenses you are not consciously "registering", but they are real, and they add up. A daily coffee is not "registering" as well, but it's massive amount of money if you consider how much you spent in a year.

Would you mind quantifying how the coffee argument applies to this discussion, which is about oil change?

For example, here in the UK the average cost of oil and filter change (if you pay someone to do it rather than doing it yourself) is £102 [1]. Done every other year, this amounts to £51 p.a., which is less than a typical tank of fuel [2].

[1] https://www.fixter.co.uk/blog/how-much-is-an-oil-and-filter-...

[2] https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/full-tank-of-...

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#206

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

mrtksn wrote: post #200
gambiting wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I did the same recently, but in a PHEV, and I honestly think it's the best of both worlds. In my daily usage, I use zero fuel. Last time I filled up was in March, because I just charge it at home and nearly all of my daily driving is within the 30 mile EV-only range. But when we drove across Europe I could just carry on for about 600 miles per tank, only filling up once at a well stocked petrol station(with workin…

When the infrastructure is multi-fuel, the car being multi-fuel is a great value. Many years ago, I was driving across Europe with my old petrol car that was converted to use LPG. I like LPG because it's cheaper, the engine makes less noise and it is more environmentally friendly(but it's bad for the car AFAIK, the car was a clunker anyway). What I found out was that in Europe, even within the EU, LPG stations don't…

LPG is becoming progressively less common in Australia, this article[1] focuses on Queensland but the story is the same across Australia

”Since July 2010 there has been a 70% drop in the volume of LPG sales,” Mr Jeffreys said.

“The number of LPG registered vehicles has also fallen in the last five years.”

RACQ Technical Advisor Bill Reeves said the availability of LPG is set to further decrease.

“New fuel outlets simply aren’t putting in LPG bowsers and many existing stations are removing their LPG tanks when they are due to be recertified because the limited returns from the sale of LPG do not justify the expense,” Mr Reeves said.

Regional Queenslanders bear the brunt of the shortage with only one LPG bowser in 15 regional centres and no bowsers in Blackwater, Childers, Moranbah, Proserpine, Tully and Cunnamulla.

For residents of Moranbah this means a more than 270km round trip to the nearest LPG bowser at Puma Carmilla.

“Remote service stations may be less reliable because, if the LPG machinery breaks down, they have to wait a long time for parts and a technician to repair the equipment,” Mr Reeves said.

“This can cause problems for regional Queenslanders when there’s only one LPG bowser in the area.”

In addition to the shortage, no new LPG passenger cars are being manufactured in Australia and the benefits of choosing LPG are diminishing.

“LPG tanks in your car are expensive and must be recertified every 10 years,” Mr Reeves said.

“The costs associated with maintaining your car’s fuel tank means LPG is no longer a cheap fuel source for Queenslanders.

1. https://www.racq.com.au/Living/Articles/Wheres-the-LPG

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#207

Post by rad_gruchalski »

There are many people driving from London to Warsaw on a semi-regular basis. That a 1000+ mile drive. It can be done in 19 hours with a ferry crossing. I’ve done it myself a number of times. Relaxing drive takes 22 hours.

There is no reason this should take twice as long.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#208

Post by aix1 »

mhh__ wrote: post #19
Hamuko wrote: post #2

> And everyone should stop driving fossil vehicles starting now. [...] There’s no excuse not to. I have my doubts that everyone can switch over to a (prices starting at) $70,000 electric car like the author can.

In the UK at least, I think the thing with electric cars isn't so much the price (leafs are pretty cheap-ish, seems like a perfectly good A->B car) but that you basically need land or a safe area to be able to charge them. That's what makes them a toy for the rich at the moment.

Yeah. If I had a car here in London, I'd keep it on the street (prefer to use the garage as a workshop). There's a public charging point within a minute's walk. However, the parking space it's next to isn't reserved for EVs and so there's always some non-electric car parked there, rendering the charger useless.

I suppose I could run a charging cable from the house onto the street (across the pavement), but that doesn't seem like an ideal long-term solution.

There's a process for an EV owner to ask the council to install a public charging point close to their house, but I've no idea how well that process works. And again, if they don't reserve the adjacent parking space for EVs, it'll likely also be quite useless.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#209

Post by lordnacho »

aakour wrote: post #190
lordnacho wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you work out the emissions of the ferry routes?

I used the numbers from the Finnish state research centre VTT ( http://lipasto.vtt.fi/yksikkopaastot/tavaraliikennee/vesilii... )

Looks like a useful table, but unless I've missed it you need to know how many people/cars are on each ship?

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#210

Post by hokkos »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #21

From the end of TFA: >And everyone should stop driving fossil vehicles starting now. [ ... ] There’s no excuse not to. Admirable sentiments, but can anyone point definitively to the net gain/loss in CO2 terms of actually ditching a fossil fuel based car and replacing it with a new EV? And how does that look if the FF car is something like a Honda Fit (good mileage, lower than typical emissions)? I'd be willing to dum…

Just look right here, 2.5 times less emissions in the USA in a life cycle analysis :

https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/Global-...

If you want to test with your own car, and custom data, this tool is great :

https://climobil.connecting-project.lu/

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