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70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

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Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#201

Post by IncRnd »

foobar33333 wrote: post #160
jboy55 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People from other countries do not get welfare in the USA. that is a myth. The problem with 'SF' is people flocking from conservative areas in the US that have solved their homeless problem by literally bussing people to SF. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...

My point is that SF can not fix welfare on its own because it doesn't have the power to stop people from other states moving in. It either needs to be a nation wide fix or for the city/state to become its own country.

Maybe the rest of the country should stop people moving out of that city/state.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#202

Post by manigandham »

chrisseaton wrote: post #85
abystander wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic, re: outlawing speeding: "imagine making driving a crime."

That's not my logic. My logic is 'crossing the road is completely reasonable, doesn't harm anyone, people should be allowed to get to the other side of the road'. That logic doesn't follow to speeding, which is dangerous and selfish. Do you realise it's not a crime in other countries? It's not in the UK and yet we have a lower road-death rate than the US. What are jaywalking laws for anyway?

Why stop at a red light or stay in your lane then if there's no other traffic? The rules are in place to keep order and avoid surprises. Sure you can safely cross the street but that doesn't negate the point of the law.

The UK has a much smaller population with more public transit, and the cities like London are so densely packed with slow-moving traffic that it's unlikely to lead to deaths. Comparing metrics without context isn't much of an argument against stopping unsafe crossings.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#203

Post by creamytaco »

throwawaysea wrote: post #183

The same thing has happened in Portland and Seattle, both cities with increasing amounts of property crime, increasing amounts of homeless campers taking up public spaces, increasing amounts of harassment from vagrants, widespread open drug-abuse, increasing amounts of blight as pristine greenbelts are trashed, and a revolving door of criminals who are released into the public without consequence by a permissive city…

As someone else said, you get the results you vote for. Change needs to happen from the bottom-up starting with the people who keep voting for these failed policies and the politicians behind them.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#204

Post by native_samples »

chrisseaton wrote: post #187
justshowpost wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

«no jaywalking» and «no speeding» are two sides of the effort to maintain the order Compromise does not satisfy, but dissatisfies everybody; it does not lead to any general fulfillment, but to general frustration; those who try to become everything to all people end up by not being anything to anyone.

I don’t see how they’re two sides to anything? In the UK we have speeding laws but no jaywalking laws. You clearly don’t need both in order to balance or form a compromise.

That's true but Germany also doesn't have speeding laws on their autobahns, and the UK does, so perhaps speeding laws are also crazy? Where does it end?

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#205

Post by native_samples »

creamytaco wrote: post #203
throwawaysea wrote: post #183

The same thing has happened in Portland and Seattle, both cities with increasing amounts of property crime, increasing amounts of homeless campers taking up public spaces, increasing amounts of harassment from vagrants, widespread open drug-abuse, increasing amounts of blight as pristine greenbelts are trashed, and a revolving door of criminals who are released into the public without consequence by a permissive city…

As someone else said, you get the results you vote for. Change needs to happen from the bottom-up starting with the people who keep voting for these failed policies and the politicians behind them.

Do they realize though?

I was recently on holiday in Europe. We did a boat tour and there were some Americans on the boat, from LA and New York. At lunch their discussion turned more or less immediately to violent crime, their fear of it and the sudden increase in it. What caught my attention the most though was their explanation: it was, we were told, due to insufficient funding for prisons causing prisoners to be released early.

I was quite surprised by this because of threads I'd seen on HN like this one, and because I'd read about the Portland riots, but didn't say anything. Afterwards I found the articles talking about the recall of the LA DA. No mention of prison funding levels was to be found.

The table didn't talk politics explicitly, but I wonder if those people were sufficiently left wing that they'd voted for these policies and were now trying to explain the results as having different causes.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#206

Post by chrisseaton »

manigandham wrote: post #202
chrisseaton wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not my logic. My logic is 'crossing the road is completely reasonable, doesn't harm anyone, people should be allowed to get to the other side of the road'. That logic doesn't follow to speeding, which is dangerous and selfish. Do you realise it's not a crime in other countries? It's not in the UK and yet we have a lower road-death rate than the US. What are jaywalking laws for anyway?

Why stop at a red light or stay in your lane then if there's no other traffic? The rules are in place to keep order and avoid surprises. Sure you can safely cross the street but that doesn't negate the point of the law. The UK has a much smaller population with more public transit, and the cities like London are so densely packed with slow-moving traffic that it's unlikely to lead to deaths. Comparing metrics without…

Because cars are dangerous and need to be controlled for safety.

A human being walking around and crossing with some basic looking both ways is not a danger to anyone.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#207

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

ergocoder wrote: post #18
burlesona wrote: post #2

I feel like this experience is so common it’s almost cliche, but I ended up moving with my family out of the city in mid 2020 mostly due to the major influx of homeless into our neighborhood, which had very little before. I didn’t like my kids facing that every time we walked to the park or the grocery store. There was also a rise in petty crime that made the neighborhood feel a lot less safe. It’s a tough situation.…

Petty and non-violent crime is only petty and non-violent because the victims don't fight back. I don't know what the solution is, but calling these petty/non-violent feels like an unfair take. A victim is often traumatized about this kind of experiences, but that is never taken into account. I feel San Francisco is such a screwed up place. But many would disagree with me. I don't live there anymore, but it seems peo…

Whether it works or not, it will be a great experience to learn for outsiders... So... Go Chesa Boudin! Fighto! We support you 200%!

extraordinary

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#208

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

dougmwne wrote: post #149
youmustbeblind wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love Warsaw but suspect your in $1000/mo+ Airbnb, alcohol abuse amongst the homeless in Warsaw is massive, and thus aggressive begging, everything else you say is correct, but your in a 2km bubble and Warsaw is a big city, even a walk to googles free coworking space will be enlightening for you (it will put you marginally outside the comfort zone briefly if you walk the quickest path over the bridge, then loop back i…

I am a block away from it in Praga. There are a handful of drunks, but I understand this is the worst area of the city, but I was interested in getting to know the other side of the Vistula. I haven't seen any rough sleeping or open air drug use near me. Very little public drinking over here (unlike all the students on the other side of the river). Praga has nothing on the Tenderloin. Elsewhere in the city, I saw pus…

For the most part the homeless live inside abandoned buildings or under the bridges since the weather in Warsaw is drastically different than in the SF. If you are a drunkard, you are very likely to die in the winter due to exposure.

Example 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1TyHe7b0SY

Example 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWUmdTvtSJo

An example of people living under the bridges:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Homx6vJ3R0

Some charities distribute sleeping bags and mattresses at the end of the summer so that people don't freeze - no shelters allow drunk people.

If you sleep in parks or elsewhere, the police are going to remove you from there to a drunk tank.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#209

Post by true_religion »

chrisseaton wrote: post #166
true_religion wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars aren’t fully autonomous yet. There are people in those cars who have just as much right to tax payer funded roads while in a car as they do on their feet. The deciding factor should be if the law contributes to civil order, or reduces injury.

> There are people in those cars who have just as much right to tax payer funded roads while in a car as they do on their feet. But you want to ban the pedestrians from the road - you don’t want ‘just as much right’ to the road - you want more right to it. You want the entire length of a block and think pedestrians should just have tiny crossing points. > The deciding factor should be if the law contributes to civil…

I actually don’t want anything. Different cities, states, and communities can make their own decisions on if pedestrians should be on roads or bike paths.

I’m just against the framing of this as cars vs. people.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#210

Post by Consultant32452 »

aksss wrote: post #198
Consultant32452 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn’t suggesting the theory works. I was pointing out the discomfort is intended.

The problem with the theory is that the people who have a choice to avoid it just move out. The wealthy who stay can live behind gates and walls with paid protection. The people who promote these theories live in such a disconnected reality, relearning basic lessons in ways that cost societies as a whole and tragically create even more inequality and inequity than was present when they started. Now you preside over a…

It feels like you think you’re disagreeing with me but I agree with everything you wrote.
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