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70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

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Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#121

Post by tootie »

desine wrote: post #100
tootie wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there are actually any studies cited for any of those. In fact, it's well known that local gun laws are nearly useless. NYC makes it nearly impossible to buy a gun but they are easily bought in bulk an hour or two drive in any direction. Immigrant policy is mostly based on humanitarian grounds. But I'd still be surprised if it's actually a major driver of crime. Violent crime in higher nationwide than e…

I don't feel the need to deport illegal immigrants who don't commit violent crime. However SF doesn't allow ICE to arrest/serve warrants, even if the person in question has drug charges, violent crime charges, etc. In a city that clearly has taxpaying residents unhappy with the level of crime, they're throwing away free federal resources to deal with those issues. Even if it's not a driving factor, it's a symptom of…

AFAIK they do allow enforcement of criminal warrants for anything violent. They also don't and can't prevent federal agents from doing anything. They just don't actively cooperate or enforce immigration law with their own police. Also worth noting that they adopted sanctuary status in 1989 which preceded their massive rise in prosperity. It seems unlikely to be a factor in problems of the last 5 years.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#122

Post by digianarchist »

foobar33333 wrote: post #42
ivalm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the issue is that there is a tragedy of commons, as SF increases resources for homeless more and more homeless flock to the city thus requiring ever increasing amount of resources. I am honestly not sure what to do other than support more nationwide solutions.

Most places deal with this via border restrictions. One country with better welfare does not allow themselves to be flooded with people from other countries. This problem can not be solved by one city without the ability to restrict movement.

Or transfer payments like we do in Canada.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#123

Post by creamytaco »

ergocoder wrote: post #80
IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i dont understand you at all - chesa boudin is in favor of letting all the "non violent" criminals you mention , to avoid jail time and prosecution. He's more of the same SF lawyer we had for decades , but on steroids? What is expected to change exactly?

Yeah but different stages require different attitudes. 10y ago, this wasn't an issue, so it was okay. Now it is an issue.. but we double down on this same approach, which makes it even worse. Sociological problem like this is tricky to solve. SF residents believe that restorative justice will eventually win in the end, so we should cheer for them to follow through with this experiment. Whether it will work or not, we…

You are already seeing the result of this multi-year experiment. At what point does one lift the veil from his/her eyes? Does the entire city need to become a no-go zone?

It won't take long.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#124

Post by Consultant32452 »

burlesona wrote: post #2

I feel like this experience is so common it’s almost cliche, but I ended up moving with my family out of the city in mid 2020 mostly due to the major influx of homeless into our neighborhood, which had very little before. I didn’t like my kids facing that every time we walked to the park or the grocery store. There was also a rise in petty crime that made the neighborhood feel a lot less safe. It’s a tough situation.…

The theory is that if people like you are forced to see the homeless you’ll be more willing to fund helping them. Tuck those homeless into shelters and you’ll forget.

The problem is people with options leave. They might be willing to help but not at the cost of their own children.

The thing 2020 taught me is 90% of the population considers me an acceptable sacrifice. I’m going to have to live with that now and act accordingly.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#125

Post by jboy55 »

foobar33333 wrote: post #42
ivalm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the issue is that there is a tragedy of commons, as SF increases resources for homeless more and more homeless flock to the city thus requiring ever increasing amount of resources. I am honestly not sure what to do other than support more nationwide solutions.

Most places deal with this via border restrictions. One country with better welfare does not allow themselves to be flooded with people from other countries. This problem can not be solved by one city without the ability to restrict movement.

People from other countries do not get welfare in the USA. that is a myth. The problem with 'SF' is people flocking from conservative areas in the US that have solved their homeless problem by literally bussing people to SF. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#126

Post by ryanobjc »

Google234 wrote: post #31

It would be nice if they voted in new people (read: republicans) based on this. I think the city would be improved with some different ideas in government.

The republican brand is associated with racism and declining to govern. They cannot win in the Bay Area.

I’m unclear what policies they’d bring except more bashing in homeless skulls?

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#127

Post by creamytaco »

NeverFade wrote: post #41
ergocoder wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We talked about different kind of crimes. For example, the Walgreen robbing incident is a non-violent crime because nobody confronted the thieves. I have no idea if breaking car window is considered a violent crime.

Shoplifting to that extent - pouring the contents of several shelves into a garbage bag and taking off - threatens the sustainability of businesses. All these crimes have victims.

Besides, acts like this normalize moral and ethical rot. Do you want your kids to witness this behavior week in / week out? What do you think this does to their development? I took my family out of that cesspit years ago, when my little girl starting asking uncomfortable questions stemming from witnessing this sort of behavior.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#128

Post by akomtu »

tootie wrote: post #91
desine wrote: post #39

It's just a symptom of the neo-pseudo-scientific political system. I can find plenty of articles that "fact check" my gut instinct that deporting illegal immigrants who commit violent crime will reduce the violent crime. A cursory googling will remind me that SF's ban on handguns, licensed carry, and other gun restrictions protect me. After all, if I were in danger, the police average under 8 minutes response time on…

I don't think there are actually any studies cited for any of those. In fact, it's well known that local gun laws are nearly useless. NYC makes it nearly impossible to buy a gun but they are easily bought in bulk an hour or two drive in any direction. Immigrant policy is mostly based on humanitarian grounds. But I'd still be surprised if it's actually a major driver of crime. Violent crime in higher nationwide than e…

Here's stats on violent crime in the US:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#129

Post by ceejayoz »

astrange wrote: post #118
techrat wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These comics (and the ones suggesting "defunding police" will lead to school funding) are essentially a trick because 1. reducing police funding won't lead to money going to those other places 2. half those things are done under the police department 3. the other half are much more expensive than police funding. Evidence does not support your claims. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/19/alexandria-k... S…

This is "half those things are done under the police department". Defunding the police department would prevent this. If you want to hire social workers, which is a good idea, say that instead.

You should look in to the defund proposals, then, because that's what they're typically advocating; moving these responsibilities (and their funding) out of the police department.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police

> "Defund the police" is a slogan that supports divesting funds from police departments and reallocating them to non-policing forms of public safety and community support, such as social services, youth services, housing, education, healthcare and other community resources.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#130

Post by jboy55 »

bingidingi wrote: post #36
ivalm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the issue is that there is a tragedy of commons, as SF increases resources for homeless more and more homeless flock to the city thus requiring ever increasing amount of resources. I am honestly not sure what to do other than support more nationwide solutions.

this also happens in other major cities like NYC, Boston, etc… most of the local homeless are from small cities and towns and go to the city because they hear it’s better… and it is, because many small cities have next to no services for them if you spread out the homeless proportionately to the population of the country it becomes a much more manageable problem

The small towns literally bus or have the police drop off homeless into big cities so they don't have to pay for it. In Santa Cruz, there are tonnes of homeless. 10 miles away in Scotts Valley there are no visible homeless, that's because Scotts valley PD picks up homeless and drops them off in Santa Cruz.
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