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70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

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Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#11

Post by khazhoux »

underseacables wrote: post #6

This is interesting given the protests. As I understand it, San Francisco is generally considered to be a very liberal and progressive city. The politicians are generally considered to be very liberal and progressive. These are the same groups, however, that want to defund the police. I don’t get it. You can want both police reform, and policing, but without the police there’s not really anyone capable, trained, or j…

You're mixing issues.

The homelessness problem has been growing for the last 15 years (I mean, before that too, but I remember never being shocked in the early 2000s like I always am today), whereas the "Defund" thing is only in the last year.

The homelessness crisis is not caused by a lack of police enforcement.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#12

Post by Ericson2314 »

ivalm wrote: post #7
AussieWog93 wrote: post #4

I wonder what percentage of residents support the tax increases necessary to provide such services.

Except the issue is that there is a tragedy of commons, as SF increases resources for homeless more and more homeless flock to the city thus requiring ever increasing amount of resources. I am honestly not sure what to do other than support more nationwide solutions.

The services should be nation-wide, and should be housing. Everything else is just a palliative.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#13

Post by fastball »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #4

I wonder what percentage of residents support the tax increases necessary to provide such services.

The problem is that taxes are already fairly high. Throwing more money at the problem is not going to fix these issues. Bad administration is bad administration no matter how much money you burn.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#14

Post by khazhoux »

underseacables wrote: post #9
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you be a bit more specific about what you mean? By itself, that drive-by comment doesn't tell us much...

Well, a quick Google search brings this up from Wikipedia: Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media is a 1988 book by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky. It argues that the mass communication media of the U.S. "are effective and powerful ideological institutions that carry out a system-supportive propaganda function, by reliance on market forces, internalized assumptions, and self-censorship, and…

So... this survey is propaganda?

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#15

Post by underseacables »

ivalm wrote: post #7
AussieWog93 wrote: post #4

I wonder what percentage of residents support the tax increases necessary to provide such services.

Except the issue is that there is a tragedy of commons, as SF increases resources for homeless more and more homeless flock to the city thus requiring ever increasing amount of resources. I am honestly not sure what to do other than support more nationwide solutions.

Did this happen in Portland? I can’t put my finger on it but I seem to recall something about how Portland’s public assistance largess had become a beacon for people across the country to go to Portland to take it advantage of that. Thus increasing the number of people needing those services, and causing the friction.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#16

Post by MattGaiser »

underseacables wrote: post #9
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you be a bit more specific about what you mean? By itself, that drive-by comment doesn't tell us much...

Well, a quick Google search brings this up from Wikipedia: Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media is a 1988 book by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky. It argues that the mass communication media of the U.S. "are effective and powerful ideological institutions that carry out a system-supportive propaganda function, by reliance on market forces, internalized assumptions, and self-censorship, and…

Even with an understanding of what the phrase means, it doesn’t explain how they think it applies.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#17

Post by techrat »

underseacables wrote: post #6

This is interesting given the protests. As I understand it, San Francisco is generally considered to be a very liberal and progressive city. The politicians are generally considered to be very liberal and progressive. These are the same groups, however, that want to defund the police. I don’t get it. You can want both police reform, and policing, but without the police there’s not really anyone capable, trained, or j…

What's not to get?

https://i.imgur.com/8xlOIW9.png

The whole point of defunding the police is to get the funding back to where it belongs.

https://citymonitor.ai/government/the-reality-of-us-city-bud... - The reality of US city budgets: Police funding eclipses most other agencies’

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#18

Post by ergocoder »

burlesona wrote: post #2

I feel like this experience is so common it’s almost cliche, but I ended up moving with my family out of the city in mid 2020 mostly due to the major influx of homeless into our neighborhood, which had very little before. I didn’t like my kids facing that every time we walked to the park or the grocery store. There was also a rise in petty crime that made the neighborhood feel a lot less safe. It’s a tough situation.…

Petty and non-violent crime is only petty and non-violent because the victims don't fight back.

I don't know what the solution is, but calling these petty/non-violent feels like an unfair take.

A victim is often traumatized about this kind of experiences, but that is never taken into account.

I feel San Francisco is such a screwed up place. But many would disagree with me.

I don't live there anymore, but it seems people there like restorative justice, and outsiders should help cheer for that to see whether it will work. We need this kind of experiments anyway.

Whether it works or not, it will be a great experience to learn for outsiders... So... Go Chesa Boudin! Fighto! We support you 200%!

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#19

Post by Justin_K »

techrat wrote: post #17
underseacables wrote: post #6

This is interesting given the protests. As I understand it, San Francisco is generally considered to be a very liberal and progressive city. The politicians are generally considered to be very liberal and progressive. These are the same groups, however, that want to defund the police. I don’t get it. You can want both police reform, and policing, but without the police there’s not really anyone capable, trained, or j…

What's not to get? https://i.imgur.com/8xlOIW9.png The whole point of defunding the police is to get the funding back to where it belongs. https://citymonitor.ai/government/the-reality-of-us-city-bud... - The reality of US city budgets: Police funding eclipses most other agencies’

There has already been extensive spending in these areas and what do we have to show for it?

EDIT: While there's many factors that drive crime, crime was lower before the defund movements.

Re: 70% of San Francisco residents say quality of life has declined: poll

#20

Post by flatiron »

ergocoder wrote: post #18
burlesona wrote: post #2

I feel like this experience is so common it’s almost cliche, but I ended up moving with my family out of the city in mid 2020 mostly due to the major influx of homeless into our neighborhood, which had very little before. I didn’t like my kids facing that every time we walked to the park or the grocery store. There was also a rise in petty crime that made the neighborhood feel a lot less safe. It’s a tough situation.…

Petty and non-violent crime is only petty and non-violent because the victims don't fight back. I don't know what the solution is, but calling these petty/non-violent feels like an unfair take. A victim is often traumatized about this kind of experiences, but that is never taken into account. I feel San Francisco is such a screwed up place. But many would disagree with me. I don't live there anymore, but it seems peo…

Sometimes there is no direct victim. Whose the direct victim of public urination or jay walking? I’m not saying they should be legal it’s just nobody really gets traumatized if someone crosses the street without right of way.
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