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On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

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Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#201

Post by codemac »

efiecho wrote: post #46
ainiriand wrote: post #13

As a vegan, I am concerned about the cruel treatment of farm animals. Losing family farms only aggravates the problem in this price race against the bigger actors in dairy production. While dairy is not strictly necessary for grown ups, I recognise that it will be present for some time so we should care about how it is produced. Dairy should be more expensive than it is now, similar to what happens to meat.

> While dairy is not strictly necessary for grown ups, I recognise that it will be present for some time so we should care about how it is produced. Dairy should be more expensive than it is now, similar to what happens to meat. Dairy and meat is part of a healthy diet. While not impossible to do without, health problems often develops with time. That's why most people (84%) who adopts a vegan diet at some point in t…

Where does 84% come from? Would love to see a cited source, so I can understand your point better.

Re: health without meat & dairy: B12 and other vitamins missing in vegetables are also missing in our meat, which is why all chicken, pigs, and cows are fed B12 vitamins in their feed.

If you stop eating meat and dairy all together, you have to supplement B12 - but most Americans are B12 deficient either way, similar to vitamin D.

Finally - eating meat and dairy also leads to health problems, see: heart disease. I know it's complex, but dairy is definitely not a required part of a diet, and is why humans don't feed their young human milk after infancy.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#202

Post by BitwiseFool »

jasonv wrote: post #154

I visited a dairy in Utah a couple of summers ago. 130 cows, 3 employees. It's a fully automated facility, using equipment from Germany. The cows enter a stall, the machine milks them, gives them a treat, they move on. Employees get a text if a cow hasn't milked itself in a while... usually a tap on their shoulder is enough to get them to walk over to the machine. Even yet, the person giving the tour said they don't…

I recall hearing that there is a glut of milk in the US because there are just too many dairy cows. Is this still true?

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#203

Post by spaetzleesser »

esaym wrote: post #160
ainiriand wrote: post #13

As a vegan, I am concerned about the cruel treatment of farm animals. Losing family farms only aggravates the problem in this price race against the bigger actors in dairy production. While dairy is not strictly necessary for grown ups, I recognise that it will be present for some time so we should care about how it is produced. Dairy should be more expensive than it is now, similar to what happens to meat.

>As a vegan, I am concerned about the cruel treatment of farm animals. For a somewhat malicious counter point... if the entire world stopped using dairy and beef, the cow as we know it would quickly go extinct. They have no natural habitat, they can't take care of themselves, and they make really lousy pets. It is a somewhat similar story with elephants. They make lousy pets as well and selling ivory is illegal. So t…

"For a somewhat malicious counter point... if the entire world stopped using dairy and beef, the cow as we know it would quickly go extinct. They have no natural habitat, they can't take care of themselves, and they make really lousy pets. "

Reframing factory farming as a conservation measure is a very cyncial view. That's top notch spin doctoring and worth a long career in lobbying.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#204

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

benjaminmaccini wrote: post #195

This was written in 2019. There is another thread, but this is my first time reading. So I understand; - Milk prices are going down due to a decrease in the cost of production + overproduction. - Farmland availability is decreasing because CAFOs are incentivized (required?) to buy more land. Property value is also decreasing for farmers near CAFOs. - Small farmers operate on decreasing margins. - Small farmers lack p…

> It's insane how little I know about food economics and scary how much of an impact it has on communities, especially impoverished ones.

America mostly stopped caring about the welfare of rural Americans sometime around WWII. There have been some brief blips (Appalachia 68, farms 78) but generally - concern for Americans to sustain themselves ends at the edge of metro areas. Neither pols, nor press nor most of us are interested in a meaningful way.

To be clear, my assertion isn't an invitation to pit the rural poor against the urban poor. It's to highlight how Americans tend to be particular about which Americans merit their concern. For schlubs like me, that might be understandable. But for those folks who's actual job it is to look out for everyone - rarely caring about the welfare of some Americans (who are in real and sustained trouble) is just systemic neglect.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#205

Post by CSSer »

benjaminmaccini wrote: post #195

This was written in 2019. There is another thread, but this is my first time reading. So I understand; - Milk prices are going down due to a decrease in the cost of production + overproduction. - Farmland availability is decreasing because CAFOs are incentivized (required?) to buy more land. Property value is also decreasing for farmers near CAFOs. - Small farmers operate on decreasing margins. - Small farmers lack p…

For those curious, CAFO stands for "Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation". I was unfamiliar with the term and had to look it up.

See link for more details (found in Wikipedia sources) [0]:

> A CAFO is another EPA term for a large concentrated AFO [animal feeding operation]. A CAFO is an AFO with more than 1000 animal units (an animal unit is defined as an animal equivalent of 1000 pounds live weight and equates to 1000 head of beef cattle, 700 dairy cows, 2500 swine weighing more than 55 lbs, 125 thousand broiler chickens, or 82 thousand laying hens or pullets) confined on site for more than 45 days during the year. Any size AFO that discharges manure or wastewater into a natural or man-made ditch, stream or other waterway is defined as a CAFO, regardless of size. CAFOs are regulated by EPA under the Clean Water Act in both the 2003 and 2008 versions of the "CAFO" rule.

[0]: https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/national/plan...

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#206

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

refurb wrote: post #36
urthor wrote: post #27

On one point the article has made. Canadians are really really unhappy with their milk system, they have some of the highest priced milk in the entire world and they despise it. "probably through a supply management program similar to what Canada has" is a nonstarter for cityfolk. It would mean $4 milk.

I remember the first time I saw cheese prices in the US and almost cried. A 1 kg block of good cheese was like $20-30, not $60-90.

Officially, US cheddar seems to be trending about $12/kg ($5.50/lb). I actually pay a lot less, ~$12.50 for a 4lb block (Walmart).

ref: https://www.statista.com/statistics/236863/retail-price-of-c...

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#208

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #102

Fun fact: newborn cows are switched from their mother's milk to an industrial milk formula just five days after their birth, instead of the normal weaning period of 8 months, so that humans can drink the calf's milk.

> Fun fact:...

Fun is weird where you are. What are your amusement parks like?

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#209

Post by rl9 »

I had a similar upbringing, but in Canada. A lot of this rings true.

Our family doesn't farm anymore,but for different reasons. Still, the pressure to go big or go home exists north of the border, too.

I think Adam Smith nailed it back in the 1700s, when he noted that farmers could not take advantage of specialization. They're capitalists and labourers and landlords and semi-professional veterinarians and commodity traders all in one. Without specialization, they're unlikely to ever be very wealthy relative to the amount of labor and capital they input.

The bigger farms can actually hire dedicated mechanics and accountants and such, so it's no surprise they get a better return on investment. That would probably remain true even if they didn't engage in shenanigans like undocumented laborers and excessive pollution, though no doubt those practices help them pull even further ahead.

On a different note, since supply management was mentioned, I can't resist linking to this program: https://youtu.be/3d-FlQHoHpU

Short argument against supply management: it's a regressive tax on people who buy milk, cheese, butter and yogurt.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#210

Post by katbyte »

reedjosh wrote: post #148
duxup wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately the problem is the price...

I'm seeing a resurgence of competition on quality too. I personally purchase organic grass fed glass bottled milk from local farms. Sounds snobby and onerous, but it's available at any Whole Foods. Quality food is truly worth it. Milk should not be a commodity. I know it's a bit more expensive, but I promise eating quality reduces the need for quantity. Our bodies are starving on this poorly made junk commodity food.

> Milk should not be a commodity

neither should food, water, or shelter but here we are

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