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On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

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Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#101

Post by bitshiftfaced »

voidmain0001 wrote: post #45
urthor wrote: post #27

On one point the article has made. Canadians are really really unhappy with their milk system, they have some of the highest priced milk in the entire world and they despise it. "probably through a supply management program similar to what Canada has" is a nonstarter for cityfolk. It would mean $4 milk.

From my perspective (being Canadian, and having enough money to purchase milk) the price is fine with me. No one in my family drinks milk. My kids have it with cereal, and I use it for cooking. A price of $5 CDN for 4L of regular milk, and $9 CDN for 4L of organic milk is just high enough to ensure that it is drunk in moderation. Using Walmart, I chose Plano, TX and the price of 1 gallon of Walmart brand milk costs $…

It amounts to about a $150 dollar a year tax (more with the more children you have). Only, the tax goes to 13,000 producers, so it's a regressive tax that penalizes the poor.

https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/suppl...

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#103

Post by dkersten »

efiecho wrote: post #46
ainiriand wrote: post #13

As a vegan, I am concerned about the cruel treatment of farm animals. Losing family farms only aggravates the problem in this price race against the bigger actors in dairy production. While dairy is not strictly necessary for grown ups, I recognise that it will be present for some time so we should care about how it is produced. Dairy should be more expensive than it is now, similar to what happens to meat.

> While dairy is not strictly necessary for grown ups, I recognise that it will be present for some time so we should care about how it is produced. Dairy should be more expensive than it is now, similar to what happens to meat. Dairy and meat is part of a healthy diet. While not impossible to do without, health problems often develops with time. That's why most people (84%) who adopts a vegan diet at some point in t…

I don't have the source handy and couldn't be bothered looking for it... its my understanding that dairy is not necessary in a human diet. It doesn't contain anything that isn't easier or healthier to get from other sources and in some cases isn't really beneficial either. Studies have also shown that milk is not a good calcium source, either (although a very quick google didn't find sources to back that up, so maybe its not accurate). The advice I heard from one doctor was: if you enjoy dairy, consume it in moderation, but don't rely on it for nutrition.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#104

Post by snikeris »

sologoub wrote: post #96

Fortunately for me, some US producers have managed to create a sustainable business model, while providing great (if old fashioned) product: https://blog.goodeggs.com/blog/straus-family-creamery-pionee... Straus milk is not cheap at ~$9 per gallon, but we don’t consume a lot and the quality is simply amazing. Still haven’t figured out what it is, but regular cheap US milk makes me incredibly sick to the point that my…

I'm also willing to pay more for milk I perceive as better. That seems to be the way forward...distinguish your milk as something better than what's usually found at the supermarket. The farm near me places emphasis on their breed of cows.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#105

Post by andrew_ »

cies wrote: post #88
andrew_ wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a human who is concerned with the treatment of bull (male) calfs born on dairy farms and their treatment for the production of veal, I have absolutely no clue why being a vegan has any pertinence. Why is it such common practice to insufferably proclaim one's ethos as a vegan? In all seriousness, the conditions under which bull calfs for veal production is abhorrent, and I have great difficulty in balance sympathy…

> the conditions under which bull calfs for veal production is abhorrent To you! To me (also vegan) any animal in a cage is abhorrent. I want to be free and wild and I also want all others to be free and wild. Maybe some humans deserve to be caged for their behavior. Animals can never be guilty... > Next time you see that on the menu, take a moment to think about where it's coming from and how it's made. Exactly. Was…

This is yet more the kind of nonsensical, insufferable drivel that turns people away from rationally thinking about their food. Someone's preference for how and what they eat contributes nothing to conversation, and exists only to project a belief of superiority and collect pats on the back from like-minded thinkers.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#106

Post by SavantIdiot »

efiecho wrote: post #46
ainiriand wrote: post #13

As a vegan, I am concerned about the cruel treatment of farm animals. Losing family farms only aggravates the problem in this price race against the bigger actors in dairy production. While dairy is not strictly necessary for grown ups, I recognise that it will be present for some time so we should care about how it is produced. Dairy should be more expensive than it is now, similar to what happens to meat.

> While dairy is not strictly necessary for grown ups, I recognise that it will be present for some time so we should care about how it is produced. Dairy should be more expensive than it is now, similar to what happens to meat. Dairy and meat is part of a healthy diet. While not impossible to do without, health problems often develops with time. That's why most people (84%) who adopts a vegan diet at some point in t…

More FUD from vegetarian haters. Please stop. Yes, 15 year old US vegans can be insufferable, just like libertarians who discover Ayn Rand at the same age.

In India it is estimated that 23-37% of the population is vegetarian or vegan [1]. In a country of 1billion, that's like an entire vegetarian United States. It is absolutely fine to live a life as vegan/vegetarian.

Also interesting you don't seem to have done any research on the health issues caused by eating red meat and dairy. Want to give that a go?

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-43581122

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#107

Post by gruez »

lettergram wrote: post #79
gruez wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Another important factor for me, was the protection from inflation. Food prices go up during inflation, so my farm is worth more. this is a moot point because literally any other thing you invest it (short of maybe government bonds) protect you from inflation.

Not quite. Stocks, gold, Bitcoin, a house you live in (not rent) don’t produce anything (unless your stock has a dividend). You want something that produces. Say I buy $300k worth of gold, 10% inflation hits and there’s no change in demand and its now worth $330k. Say I buy a $300k farm. 10% inflation hits and there’s no change in demand. It’s now worth $330k... but the value of production of said farm is also up 10%…

>Stocks, gold, Bitcoin, a house you live in (not rent) don’t produce anything (unless your stock has a dividend).

Houses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imputed_rent

Stocks: You're literally owning a share of a corporation that produces stuff. Producing a dividend (or buybacks) isn't guaranteed, but that isn't that much different than owning a farm, which can also fail to produce a profit (if costs exceed expenses).

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#108

Post by voidmain0001 »

DC1350 wrote: post #74
voidmain0001 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait. You just wrote that if America implemented a supply control system that milk prices would increase to $4/g with the implication being that increase in price would be unacceptable. Now you wrote that "US foodstuffs are awful quality because the general public buys it for some unknown reason." You can't have your cake and eat it too. Most likely the public has gotten used to low prices for low quality products. I…

Supply control increases prices without increasing quality. High quality dairy gets even more expensive.

Agreed. I didn't suggest that supply control increases quality, and yes it does increase price. However in Canada it appears that the increase in price has returned a benefit to the consumer by the gov't restricting the use of certain drugs.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#109

Post by eej71 »

smeyer wrote: post #99
lettergram wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. Stocks, gold, Bitcoin, a house you live in (not rent) don’t produce anything (unless your stock has a dividend). You want something that produces. Say I buy $300k worth of gold, 10% inflation hits and there’s no change in demand and its now worth $330k. Say I buy a $300k farm. 10% inflation hits and there’s no change in demand. It’s now worth $330k... but the value of production of said farm is also up 10%…

What you're describing isn't specific to farms. If you take out a fixed-rate loan, you'll benefit from increases to inflation (since it makes the inflation-adjusted interest rate lower). This is true whether you use that loan to buy a farm, a house, gold, et cetera. Other than the loan, it makes sense to work in real dollars (inflation adjusted) not nominal dollars (non-inflation adjusted). In real dollars, you $300k…

Perhaps I'm deeply misinformed, but as a hedge against a modest amount of regular inflation, stocks generally perform quite well over the long term - especially when compared against other asset categories.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#110

Post by thaumasiotes »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #73

unfortunately the cow seems out of the barn for reasons other than legislation being missing. Farmers have not adapted to changes in conditions and they had time to do so. The point of a union should not be to collute to raise prices. The point of a union should be to pool market power and resources to break monopolies in creameries, or pollution. Any farmer should have seen the writing on the wall to have 1 creamery…

> The point of a union should not be to collu[d]e to raise prices. The point of a union should be to pool market power and resources

These are just different words for the same thing.

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