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U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

bloomberg.com

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Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#201

Post by jim-jim-jim »

edmundsauto wrote: post #139
syops wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I contend that the real tragedy of American politics is that what ought to be class/labor issues gets sidetracked into race issues. If poor whites would stop thinking in terms of race and instead think in terms of class and economic justice then real progress could be made. Lyndon Johnson had a famous quote about just this. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-wh...

Genuine question: how can poor whites join with POC, given how the systemic racial injustice narrative has developed? I would be worried about a “this protest isn’t about your situation, white person” response. (Given the current tenor)

In the US and UK's most recent national elections, there were two candidates who sought to build multi-ethnic coalitions of working people, and did a pretty good job of it considering how much hate and slander they received from the media and their own parties.

The template for a movement is out there, and we're not as divided as you think. Just ignore academics and journalists lol.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#202

Post by mcguire »

hintymad wrote: post #123
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #2

Alternative title: "events of 2020 case poverty rate to regress to 2017/2018 levels" Frankly I'm surprised the effect was so small considering that the industries hit hardest by covid employ a heck of a lot of people who are near the poverty line to begin with. I would expect all those people to be pushed to the other side of the line resulting in a much more dramatic increase in the poverty rate.

It's pretty obvious that there has been an enlarging wealth gap and poverty rate has increased. What I don't understand is that the current narrative is to attribute such unfortunate events to systemic racism. Shouldn't we at least look at class difference, shift of industry trend, impact of policies, i.e., take the holistic view?

A hypothesis:

The problems associated with poverty and economic affect both minorities and whites. However, racism adds an extra layer of difficulties on top of the more general problems---and poor whites are some of the strongest supporters of this extra layer. Further, racism has been a problem longer than (the current wave of) poverty and economic inequality. (See, for example, the 1950s and 60s when inequality was lower but racism was much stronger.)

Edit: A corollary of this: the "problems associated with poverty and economic affect both minorities and whites" can be seen as a way to distract attention from the very real problems of racism.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#203

Post by yellowapple »

hintymad wrote: post #123
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #2

Alternative title: "events of 2020 case poverty rate to regress to 2017/2018 levels" Frankly I'm surprised the effect was so small considering that the industries hit hardest by covid employ a heck of a lot of people who are near the poverty line to begin with. I would expect all those people to be pushed to the other side of the line resulting in a much more dramatic increase in the poverty rate.

It's pretty obvious that there has been an enlarging wealth gap and poverty rate has increased. What I don't understand is that the current narrative is to attribute such unfortunate events to systemic racism. Shouldn't we at least look at class difference, shift of industry trend, impact of policies, i.e., take the holistic view?

Taking the holistic view includes recognizing that systemic racism contributes to those class differences and vice versa: it's a pretty brutal feedback loop, and requires addressing both ends of it in order to fix it.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#204

Post by [deleted] »

cammikebrown wrote: post #165
slumdev wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not at odds. It is possible for the people at the bottom to have better housing, better food, better education, and better health, while the people at the top still enjoy a vastly disproportionately greater increase in income and wealth. With disproportionate gains and different spending priorities, you won't see consistent inflation across all kinds of goods. Because the inflation is concentrated at the top,…

I think it depends where you live. My parents bought a home in 1988 for $100k and sold it six years later for $120k. Zillow says it’s worth $590k now. They bought their next home in 1994 for $180k, and it’s now appraised at $650k. This is Sacramento, CA. By the way, they pay about $3k/year in property taxes, while a new homeowner pays about triple that. If property taxes weren’t kept so artificially low for long time…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#205

Post by kibwen »

psyc wrote: post #192
kibwen wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would be worried about a “this protest isn’t about your situation, white person” response. (Given the current tenor) A genuine question of my own: what has planted this worry in your mind? What tenor do you speak of? The demographics of the US mean that any policy that POC want to enact has to also be supported by enormous numbers of white people; that POC-friendly policies have ever passed is evidence that worki…

There is the widely accepted concept of an ally. You could be one. You'll be a second-class citizen. You'll have to supplicate for your place. For the 'space you take up' as they like to say. You'll need to keep up with the latest woke thinking on TikTok and Twitter, so you know how you're expected to think, believe, feel, speak, and act, in order to keep your probationary status as an ally. And it'll always be proba…

This is such a startlingly uncharitable response that I don't know how to react. Where is this coming from? Who said anything about being a self-proclaimed "ally"? What do TikTok and Twitter have to do with this? It sounds less like you're here for a conversation about race and class and more like you have a need to unpack the distorted perceptions that one internet subculture has for another internet subculture.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#206

Post by Ensorceled »

tfehring wrote: post #197
threepio wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Frankly I'm surprised the effect was so small Only because of the moratorium on evictions, which is deferring a lot of financial pain till later, and thereby making today's numbers look a lot better than they are. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-10/u-s-house...

Why would evictions impact the poverty rate? Isn't it just the share of people who fall under a certain level of income, without directly accounting for things like housing insecurity?

It's hard to maintain employment if you are evicted from your home, especially if you have a family. You have to move in with extended family/friends and, thus, may no longer be within commuting distance of your job.

Or you could end up homeless/couch surfing and that is also very difficult for staying employed.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#207

Post by iNate2000 »

ak217 wrote: post #199
tfehring wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would evictions impact the poverty rate? Isn't it just the share of people who fall under a certain level of income, without directly accounting for things like housing insecurity?

I think most directly, when people get evicted, they are at greater risk of losing their job.

Indeed.

Those of us with stable housing take a lot of things for granted.

“I’ll just shower at the gym.” Turns a shower from a 20-minute operation to more than an hour.

Food storage and preparation.

Clothing storage, care, and maintenance.

Not to mention that getting homeless in the first place happens because of lack of resources (or poor allocation of barely sufficient resources).

Then on top of that, an eviction on your credit report makes it harder to find a new place.

And finding a place is hard and time-consuming. Not even taking into account the deposits and other costs.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#209

Post by pradn »

avrionov wrote: post #114
pradn wrote: post #26

The poverty rate is an awful metric. It simply counts the number of people who earn below a certain income. So people dipping $1 below the line are counted the same as those dipping $10,000 below the line. So, poverty-rate alleviation measures can be implemented simply by focusing on the top end of those under the limit - of course, this doesn't help much. What we should really worry about is the poverty gap - the am…

Here are the responses of the top economists on the effect of the minimum wage increase: https://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/15-minimum-wage/ They seem quite divided on both questions.

Well, the thing is that most people who are below the poverty line do not work and should not work. Of people that are poor, 80% are nonworkers.

https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2017...

Nonworkers are children, the elderly, disabled, students, carers, nonelderly retired, with unemployed being just 1.2% of that group.

https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2017...

If in the worst case more people are unemployed b/c the minimum wage increase, the poverty rate would increase. But the converse wont be true - even if the economy is booming and unemployment is zero, these folks are still going to be poor

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#210

Post by uoaei »

psyc wrote: post #192
kibwen wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would be worried about a “this protest isn’t about your situation, white person” response. (Given the current tenor) A genuine question of my own: what has planted this worry in your mind? What tenor do you speak of? The demographics of the US mean that any policy that POC want to enact has to also be supported by enormous numbers of white people; that POC-friendly policies have ever passed is evidence that worki…

There is the widely accepted concept of an ally. You could be one. You'll be a second-class citizen. You'll have to supplicate for your place. For the 'space you take up' as they like to say. You'll need to keep up with the latest woke thinking on TikTok and Twitter, so you know how you're expected to think, believe, feel, speak, and act, in order to keep your probationary status as an ally. And it'll always be proba…

This comment wouldn't read much different if you had included the phrase "white genocide" somewhere. I recommend you consider from where these prejudices are sourced.
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