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U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

bloomberg.com

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Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#171

Post by threepio »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #2

Alternative title: "events of 2020 case poverty rate to regress to 2017/2018 levels" Frankly I'm surprised the effect was so small considering that the industries hit hardest by covid employ a heck of a lot of people who are near the poverty line to begin with. I would expect all those people to be pushed to the other side of the line resulting in a much more dramatic increase in the poverty rate.

> Frankly I'm surprised the effect was so small

Only because of the moratorium on evictions, which is deferring a lot of financial pain till later, and thereby making today's numbers look a lot better than they are.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-10/u-s-house...

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#172

Post by edmundsauto »

AWildC182 wrote: post #151
edmundsauto wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: how can poor whites join with POC, given how the systemic racial injustice narrative has developed? I would be worried about a “this protest isn’t about your situation, white person” response. (Given the current tenor)

Really you just have to frame it as such. There is a distinction here, race issues tend to deal with the interface between citizens and the government (police among other things) where class issues tend to deal with the interface between corporations and the government. This is a gross oversimplification, but I think the takeaway is it's ok to have spaces for both discussions. I'd also add that both discussions are h…

There is a resistance from any movement, when they have the national attention, and another movement speaks up. It seems there is a perception that the public can only care about one thing at a time.

My guess is that any attempt to reframe away from race, towards social class, would be strongly opposed by key interests. That makes it very difficult to get into the conversation, and creates infighting between marginalized groups.

So maybe it turns out this sociology/governance stuff is more complicated than my engineers bias wants to admit. How do you make a decision when the complexity makes prediction useless?

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#173

Post by justwalt »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #163
lordloki wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll notice that the rise in media reporting on systematic racism correlates strongly with the rise in discussions about class difference, industry trends, globalization, etc. The latter was Bernie Sander's platform before he was "challenged" by BLM during the 2016 primary. Not to imply that Sanders didn't previously support BLM, but he rhetoric changed after that. It was clear to me that Sanders thought the primar…

My mind is blown. But I'm an anticonspiracy theorist. What can explain why race differences move us so much more than class?

It’s instantly apparent just by looking at someone, I would imagine. That’s at least part of it.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#174

Post by Kalium »

edmundsauto wrote: post #139
syops wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I contend that the real tragedy of American politics is that what ought to be class/labor issues gets sidetracked into race issues. If poor whites would stop thinking in terms of race and instead think in terms of class and economic justice then real progress could be made. Lyndon Johnson had a famous quote about just this. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-wh...

Genuine question: how can poor whites join with POC, given how the systemic racial injustice narrative has developed? I would be worried about a “this protest isn’t about your situation, white person” response. (Given the current tenor)

I think it starts by treating them with respect and engaging with them as human beings with their own minds, thoughts, fears, and concerns. If you approach it through the lens of "How do I get X group to sign up to Y platform", people will quickly figure out that you aren't engaging with them at all. Your well-meant and genuine intentions will go nowhere.

My suggestion is that you can start with what the demographic in question cares about. Then look sincerely at if what you're trying to do actually addresses those real, sincere, valid concerns in a way that's comprehensible to a relatively ignorant person who is perhaps justifiably suspicious of being tricked.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#175

Post by hintymad »

nickff wrote: post #145
syops wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I contend that the real tragedy of American politics is that what ought to be class/labor issues gets sidetracked into race issues. If poor whites would stop thinking in terms of race and instead think in terms of class and economic justice then real progress could be made. Lyndon Johnson had a famous quote about just this. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-wh...

It seems like 'the issues' are being framed in ways that are convenient for the political parties. The Democratic and Republican parties each get about the same support (plus or minus 5%) from various 'classes' (as defined by income or wealth quintiles), but get very different support from different ethnic groups (national origin, and not just race has a big impact). That said, I think your class-based paradigm is ju…

Yeah, class-based paradigm could well be deeply flawed as well. I just wish people could evaluate our situation from all angles instead of following certain narrative only.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#176

Post by im3w1l »

aspaceman wrote: post #153
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #125

It's been really incredible to watch the "shut it down!" crowd work comfortably from home while watching their 401k rise while the rest of America suffers. Meanwhile small businesses (which employ a disproportionate amount of minorities) basically get rolled into the trash. California effectively mandated they go out of business. The icing on the cake is seeing politician after politician get caught breaking their ow…

What is the alternative to shutting it down when a large majority of your population is idiots who don't believe the virus is real? Seriously. What else do you do? You should have given much larger stimulus checks and fund small businesses to help them stay open. Doesn't require leaving the restaurant open so Joe Six Pack can continue going to McDonalds every day like a moron. The political wedging on this issue is g…

Ideally you would immediately shut down everything and prevent the virus from even entering. With rigorous border controls and contact tracing you can prevent it from ever taking root.

Having failed that, one option is keep everything open and let people die. Covid is not that deadly, so it's worthy of consideration.

Another possibility is to deliberately make sure the young and healthy are infected. Preferably in a staggered way so they can be given care.

You could also consider making camps for the frail where they can stay isolated from the rest of the world while everything blows over.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#177

Post by dx87 »

d1zzy wrote: post #132
lumost wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that definition is susceptible to defining the "necessities for living" in ways that underestimate poverty. How do you define what's the standard of living? As of 2021 I'd imagine that several necessities for interacting with society such as internet access and potentially even mobile access would not be universally viewed as required to be above the poverty line. Similarly while home ownership is probably no…

Wait, is mobile data access a basic right now? I am living very comfortably but never got a mobile data plan. I find them too expensive for what they are. YMMV.

At least where I live in Maryland, being on "welfare" includes a cheap smart phone because a lot of jobs assume you have one for things like driving directions, getting signatures, taking pictures of receipts, etc.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#178

Post by christophilus »

hintymad wrote: post #123
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #2

Alternative title: "events of 2020 case poverty rate to regress to 2017/2018 levels" Frankly I'm surprised the effect was so small considering that the industries hit hardest by covid employ a heck of a lot of people who are near the poverty line to begin with. I would expect all those people to be pushed to the other side of the line resulting in a much more dramatic increase in the poverty rate.

It's pretty obvious that there has been an enlarging wealth gap and poverty rate has increased. What I don't understand is that the current narrative is to attribute such unfortunate events to systemic racism. Shouldn't we at least look at class difference, shift of industry trend, impact of policies, i.e., take the holistic view?

Interest rates also have a lot to do with the growing gap. The asset bubble is real, and is skewed to largely benefit the wealthy.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#179

Post by justwalt »

aspaceman wrote: post #153
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #125

It's been really incredible to watch the "shut it down!" crowd work comfortably from home while watching their 401k rise while the rest of America suffers. Meanwhile small businesses (which employ a disproportionate amount of minorities) basically get rolled into the trash. California effectively mandated they go out of business. The icing on the cake is seeing politician after politician get caught breaking their ow…

What is the alternative to shutting it down when a large majority of your population is idiots who don't believe the virus is real? Seriously. What else do you do? You should have given much larger stimulus checks and fund small businesses to help them stay open. Doesn't require leaving the restaurant open so Joe Six Pack can continue going to McDonalds every day like a moron. The political wedging on this issue is g…

I think the poster you’re responding to is upset about the hypocrisy, not the shutdown itself.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#180

Post by Jeema101 »

evan_ wrote: post #5
exabrial wrote: post #3

This and a spiraling mental health crisis are predictable outcomes from poor public health policies executed during the pandemic. For unskilled labor jobs like the service industry, lockdowns are devastating which has fueled the inequality fire in 2020. Now, talks for a massive federal minimum wage increase means further sending people into poverty by destroying the value of what small savings anyone on the bottom mi…

people living in poverty don’t have “savings”

The fact that you had to point this out demonstrates that there are a decent number of people who are either out of touch with what life is like for people living paycheck-to-paycheck, or else they're trying very hard to rationalize things.
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