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CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

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Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#201

Post by stronglikedan »

DanBC wrote: post #173
lonelappde wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is vaping better than nicotine patch, assuming that the poison is not considered a feature?

We haven't done much research on vaping as a smoking cessation tool. We've done a bit on other forms of nicotine replacement, and they are more effective when they're delivered as a package of treatment, and less effective if they're used alone with nothing else. Some smokers who've switched to vaping are now in a weird super-position state: they don't smoke right now because they vape, but take the vaping away from…

> take the vaping away from them and they'll go back to cigarettes.

That's not likely, unless their vapes were just ripped away without warning (even less likely). People that want(ed) to quit, including myself, gradually taper their nicotine to zero, and then one day just put down the vape and don't go back to nicotine in any form.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#203

Post by penagwin »

notimetorelax wrote: post #122
Mtinie wrote: post #121

Who benefits from a temporary demand reduction or regulatory shift in vaping? * Health advocates * Alcoholic beverage producers * Tobacco producers (though I believe they have gone all-in on vaping as a healthier replacement) * Black- and grey-market cannabis growers who prefer not to concentrate their product Who else should be on that list? I’m not suggesting a false-flag or major conspiracy, simply that some group…

Society, if those products are found unsafe earlier rather than later.

This depends - see the alchohol prohibition, if there's a large enough market and the product is easy enough to make then banning the product just creates an unregulated black market.

Which can create more problems if there's tainted products being sold, legal users will have to avoid otherwise legitimate shops that have at least _some_ degree of liability vs some random friend of a friend who has "good stuff" - who has no incentive at all to care about health or safety.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#204

Post by chungus_khan »

copperx wrote: post #60
SkyPuncher wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're acting like "people" is one cohesive group. I'd largely suspect there's minimal overlap between the GMO group and potent THC vapers.

While what you're saying is probably true, many people forget that humans are walking contradictions.

And also the important side point that being a hypocrite doesn't inherently make your point wrong. Sure it means you don't live consistently by it, but as you said, humans do this sort of thing constantly. Someone's arguments/beliefs should be evaluated on their own merits first and foremost.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#205

Post by katet »

Screw it, let's wade into this one briefly (because I've searched and nobody has mentioned this as far as I can see):

I currently live in South East Asia, the land of palm-oil-plantations-as-far-as-you-can-see, and it's that time of year again: slash and burn.

There is so much particulate matter in the air, that you can see the street lights illuminating it, you can't see islands from the shoreline, and schools will be closed this week if gets any worse (smack bang in the middle of the exam period as well).

I sympathise entirely with the view that vaping is not safe, only "safer". I desperately want to know the underlying cause of the CDC cases so I know what to look out for when I buy juice.

But any argument that implies that vaping is dangerous for me, and I should stop - in light of the fact that I am breathing in what is essentially ash on my commute to work - is completely and utterly missing the forest for the trees.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#206

Post by ssully »

katet wrote: post #205

Screw it, let's wade into this one briefly (because I've searched and nobody has mentioned this as far as I can see): I currently live in South East Asia, the land of palm-oil-plantations-as-far-as-you-can-see, and it's that time of year again: slash and burn. There is so much particulate matter in the air, that you can see the street lights illuminating it, you can't see islands from the shoreline, and schools will…

Sai, I think you are in a pretty unique position compared to most people. For your average person who isn't breathing in ash on a daily basis, I think it's pretty safe to say that vaping is more dangerous then not vaping, just like I think it's safe to say vaping is still safer then smoking.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#207

Post by en-us »

katet wrote: post #205

Screw it, let's wade into this one briefly (because I've searched and nobody has mentioned this as far as I can see): I currently live in South East Asia, the land of palm-oil-plantations-as-far-as-you-can-see, and it's that time of year again: slash and burn. There is so much particulate matter in the air, that you can see the street lights illuminating it, you can't see islands from the shoreline, and schools will…

Well you do have to acknowledge that you cannot control whether someone does a slash and burn or not, while vaping is something you choose to do.

I largely agree with you though. I spent some time in Beijing, and within an hour of getting off the plane I was coughing up black stuff. I breathed that stuff 24/7 for months, and some people do it for their whole life.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#208

Post by qzx_pierri »

chungus_khan wrote: post #200
qzx_pierri wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I didn't realize that. +1 However, when you consider the shift away from tobacco products, my point still stands. Vaping is something that can be produced by small time entrepreneurs, so the power is still being taken away from big tobacco. How many people can realistically grow tobacco? How many people can start making their own vape juices? I'd say a lot - This claim is corroborated by the article, which discus…

Companies like Phillip Morris/Altria also do understand that this kind of situation is semi-temporary however. Yes, anyone can make their own, but with the combination of marketing/name recognition and economies of scale (alongside existing industry connections) they can maintain a dominant position in the market with Juul as the overall market grows and solidifies. I'm sure they'd love to maintain the old status quo…

I agree with you, but that sounds like a great Plan B. The first step would be to spread fear via the delegitimization of vaping, and convince people that vaping is deadly RIGHT THIS SECOND. Of course most people know smoking will kill you, but it’s better than the “Vape Boogeyman” being portrayed. Source: Cognitive Dissonance.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#209

Post by kylek »

zelienople wrote: post #152

Several things have failed to show up in the comments that might illuminate this discussion. (1) The condition is called lipoid pneumonia, which comes from inhaling organic fats and oils. (2) The CDC reports and early studies indicate that the condition has appeared in some people who only vaped with nicotine in glycerol (which is also sometimes called glycerin or glycerine). (3) Glycerol (the Christmas molecule--HO…

Not a chemist so looking for a little clarification. The typical "base liquids" (that nicotine is suspended in) are vegetable glycerin ("VG") and propylene glycol ("PG"). When you say "glycerol", which exactly are you referring to? (Or is it both?)

(VG makes the larger "clouds" that some people prefer, typically with lower nicotine concentrations. PG is much less visible and dissipates quicker, but some people consider it a little more harsh, regardless of nicotine concentration)

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#210

Post by qzx_pierri »

snarfy wrote: post #144

> One trend worth noting, however, is that very few of the cases involve only nicotine products; most of the afflicted users reported using THC exclusively or as well as nicotine If victims used "THC exclusively", why are nicotine vapes being targeted? Were there any victims that used nicotine vapes exclusively?

> If victims used "THC exclusively", why are nicotine vapes being targeted? Were there any victims that used nicotine vapes exclusively?

See my comments above

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