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CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

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Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#161

Post by QualityReboot »

slovenlyrobot wrote: post #146
tom_mellior wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations on quitting! Do you feel you could explain the difference vaping made for tapering down, as opposed to trying to smoke fewer and fewer cigarettes?

I'm someone who used to crack up if he hadn't had a cigarette in 3 hours. Replacing cigarette with vape isn't some natural effort, but it is far from hard to do either. The nervous compulsion to have a cigarette is satisfied by a vape, after which, for reasons I simply do not understand, it becomes easier and easier to just not pick up the vape over time. I don't know at what point it happened, but I can easily go a…

It's because of the other stuff in the tobacco plant. There's a whole host of addictive things that aren't nicotine in there.

If you can switch from many addictive things to just nicotine, then you can get off the nicotine alone pretty easily. It only takes about 3 days for cravings to stop.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#162

Post by lonelappde »

protonimitate wrote: post #156
zelienople wrote: post #152

Several things have failed to show up in the comments that might illuminate this discussion. (1) The condition is called lipoid pneumonia, which comes from inhaling organic fats and oils. (2) The CDC reports and early studies indicate that the condition has appeared in some people who only vaped with nicotine in glycerol (which is also sometimes called glycerin or glycerine). (3) Glycerol (the Christmas molecule--HO…

I think >(9) Many vapers are formerly heavy smokers, meaning that they have some degree of chronic lung disease, that they retain CO2, and are very likely to have respiratory acidosis. Is important to add to the discussions. A lot of articles are pointing the finger at THC carts. They may be the catalyst but according to this NEJM article[0]: >About 80% of the persons who vaped and became ill reported having used bot…

lifetime smoking history is a major confounder that needs to be measured and highlighted.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#163

Post by nineumbrellas »

stordoff wrote: post #96
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if it really was purely a device for cessation then this could be solved by putting it behind the counter and requiring a prescription. I remember before weed was legal in California there would be a doc office next to a pot shop and you would get your prescription and then walk in. I imagine there would be a market for people who wanted to quit to go to a 5 min doc meeting, they'd verify you're a smoker and…

One thing I'd wonder about is if this might reduce the number of people using it for cessation. One extra hurdle, especially seeing a person in such a formal setting, might be enough for some people.

Personally speaking, if I had to get a prescription to buy by e-juice and devices (replacement pods, etc) I would still be smoking traditional cigarettes. Former 2 pack a day smoker, quit with the help of a Juul/Uwell Caliburn.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#164

Post by lonelappde »

johngrefe wrote: post #33

I had a startup in Vaping(nicotine) and am still fairly in touch with the industry. There has been no major innovation in nicotine eliquid that would cause a sudden cluster of issues. It's stayed pretty constant since 2013 with the exception of Salt Nicotine, which Pax labs has a gras study published for. The majority of cases seems to be THC carts where it can be confirmed. One case was confirmed from a dispensary i…

Interesting consequence of the global supply chain (really, network). For every ingredient or process sourced from a different manufacturer or factory or farm, there's added difficulty in auditing quality and consistency, and a source of unwanted variation in the end product. It's feasible to comb over one factory to look for quality problems, but not for hundreds of suppliers around the world.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#165

Post by lonelappde »

testis321 wrote: post #82

Vaping is great! Take someone who smokes two packs a day, give him a niccotine vape, and he gets all the 'high' he needs to fuel his addiciton, with (by some sources) only 10% of the "bad things" going in his lungs (compared to cigarettes). Less coughing, easier to reduce the dosage (just buy a liquid with less nicotine - you still keep your rutine and cigarette breaks, but slowly lower your addiction level). ...but.…

How is vaping better than nicotine patch, assuming that the poison is not considered a feature?

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#166

Post by woodrowbarlow »

qzx_pierri wrote: post #132

Something about all the sudden bans in flavored, (enjoyable) vapes, mixed with the fear mongering all over the news makes me feel like this is all FUD being pushed by the tobacco industry. I mean, consider what’s happening. “Why vape if it’s flavorless and tasteless? At that point, I might as well stick to my Marlboro Reds, at least they have some established flavor” - I’m just playing devils advocate. And about the…

> Juuls aren’t perfect, but their popularity and the losses to the tobacco industry’s profits make me wonder....

juul and marlboro are both owned by the same company.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#167

Post by qzx_pierri »

soulofmischief wrote: post #143
qzx_pierri wrote: post #132

Something about all the sudden bans in flavored, (enjoyable) vapes, mixed with the fear mongering all over the news makes me feel like this is all FUD being pushed by the tobacco industry. I mean, consider what’s happening. “Why vape if it’s flavorless and tasteless? At that point, I might as well stick to my Marlboro Reds, at least they have some established flavor” - I’m just playing devils advocate. And about the…

> It’s those “HUGE CLOUD XD” people who are taking ridiculous sized rips, and black market THC vape carts. Juuls aren’t perfect, but their popularity and the losses to the tobacco industry’s profits make me wonder.... From what I understand, the issue is almost purely surrounding THC carts because of the lipids many producers use to increase the THC's solubility. People who make those big clouds are using high concen…

> It helps to be less judgemental about others' lifestyles and stick to the facts.

Sorry if I came off as judgemental. With that being said, we're still unsure of the long terms effects of vaping. Those hobbyists who set their temps to ridiculously high levels and push their coil designs to the max are definitely taking it too far. I don't have a source for this claim, but rock with me on this one. Inhaling anything other than air isn't good for your lungs, and huge, HOT vape clouds aren't innocent in this discussion. I could almost argue that people who engage in that type of behavior are abusing vapes, especially when you consider what e-cigarettes were originally designed to do.

I could also reference the numerous articles (.gov) that connects 'diacetyl', a flavorant used in numerous vape juices, to "popcorn lung". However, my original intent wasn't to attack vaping, but the people who take it way too far, and give casual e-cig users a bad image.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#168

Post by qzx_pierri »

woodrowbarlow wrote: post #166
qzx_pierri wrote: post #132

Something about all the sudden bans in flavored, (enjoyable) vapes, mixed with the fear mongering all over the news makes me feel like this is all FUD being pushed by the tobacco industry. I mean, consider what’s happening. “Why vape if it’s flavorless and tasteless? At that point, I might as well stick to my Marlboro Reds, at least they have some established flavor” - I’m just playing devils advocate. And about the…

> Juuls aren’t perfect, but their popularity and the losses to the tobacco industry’s profits make me wonder.... juul and marlboro are both owned by the same company.

Ah, I didn't realize that. +1

However, when you consider the shift away from tobacco products, my point still stands. Vaping is something that can be produced by small time entrepreneurs, so the power is still being taken away from big tobacco. How many people can realistically grow tobacco? How many people can start making their own vape juices? I'd say a lot - This claim is corroborated by the article, which discusses these small time, 'fly by night' companies making their own vape cartridges (albeit very poorly).

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#169

Post by shpongled »

lonelappde wrote: post #160
zelienople wrote: post #152

Several things have failed to show up in the comments that might illuminate this discussion. (1) The condition is called lipoid pneumonia, which comes from inhaling organic fats and oils. (2) The CDC reports and early studies indicate that the condition has appeared in some people who only vaped with nicotine in glycerol (which is also sometimes called glycerin or glycerine). (3) Glycerol (the Christmas molecule--HO…

> nicotine-containing enzymes mostly present in the liver Nicotine from ingested smokee/vape/tobacco, or from other natural human physiology?

They are probably talking about nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+/NADH), a common cofactor used in redox reactions. While nicotinamide the word appeads similar to nicotine, they are in fact completely different chemicals... There are no "nicotine-containing enzymes" in the human body.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#170

Post by nemo44x »

lonelappde wrote: post #165
testis321 wrote: post #82

Vaping is great! Take someone who smokes two packs a day, give him a niccotine vape, and he gets all the 'high' he needs to fuel his addiciton, with (by some sources) only 10% of the "bad things" going in his lungs (compared to cigarettes). Less coughing, easier to reduce the dosage (just buy a liquid with less nicotine - you still keep your rutine and cigarette breaks, but slowly lower your addiction level). ...but.…

How is vaping better than nicotine patch, assuming that the poison is not considered a feature?

It's not just the nicotine. It's how it is delivered that counts for a lot. Small nicotine blasts to the system that the user controls are much different than a patch which slowly seeps nicotine into the system.
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