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CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

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Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#121

Post by Mtinie »

Who benefits from a temporary demand reduction or regulatory shift in vaping?

* Health advocates

* Alcoholic beverage producers

* Tobacco producers (though I believe they have gone all-in on vaping as a healthier replacement)

* Black- and grey-market cannabis growers who prefer not to concentrate their product

Who else should be on that list?

I’m not suggesting a false-flag or major conspiracy, simply that some group(s) will see a disproportionate benefit from wide-spread social panic over, and rejection of, vaping. If you are interested in trying to forecast economic conditions in order to increase/decrease investment in an industry, where would you look?

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#122

Post by notimetorelax »

Mtinie wrote: post #121

Who benefits from a temporary demand reduction or regulatory shift in vaping? * Health advocates * Alcoholic beverage producers * Tobacco producers (though I believe they have gone all-in on vaping as a healthier replacement) * Black- and grey-market cannabis growers who prefer not to concentrate their product Who else should be on that list? I’m not suggesting a false-flag or major conspiracy, simply that some group…

Society, if those products are found unsafe earlier rather than later.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#124

Post by davewritescode »

milofeynman wrote: post #19
jaequery wrote: post #6

They can start by listing what type of or what “brand” of ecigs and cartridges these patients were vaping. I don’t know why they won’t just do that, the public deserves to know that information. Like catching a suspect. And if it is indeed THC related, there’s gotta have some form of traceability in place so it shouldn’t be that hard to find the source of the issue. Something about it all just has a weird vibe to it.

If I have put the pieces together correctly, they were sketchy THC carts that used a vitamin e oil to achieve super high concentrations of THC (95%) or so. Normal THC carts don't have that high of a concentration. I'm guessing some backyard chemist realized they could cram more in using vitamin e oil over the more standard vape oils used (propylene glycol, etc).

It's not to achieve high concentrations, it's to disguise the fact that it's been cut at all.

Distillate that's minimally cut will typically be very very thick. The more it's cut, the thinner and runnier it will be. Customers figured this out and started equating runny pens with low quality.

Dealers basically responded by using cuts that aren't obvious. This doesn't make the concentration any higher but fools the end user.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#125

Post by chownie »

tom_mellior wrote: post #119
wp381640 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you sure vaping is actually reducing potential harm? Yep. I quit smoking via 3 years of vaping and tapering down on nicotine. I've referred and seen no less than a half-dozen people I know do the same - some of the hardest smokers i've known (including my own fathers 40 year+ pack a day habit) If anybody asks i'll always turn people onto vaping - even if they don't ask i'll push them towards it, nothing has got…

Congratulations on quitting! Do you feel you could explain the difference vaping made for tapering down, as opposed to trying to smoke fewer and fewer cigarettes?

As a person who smokes on and off, part of it is that you can continue your physical habit (take a break, hold something in your hand, breathe in warm air with a specific taste etc) but you can still drop the nicotine.

If you were to try and cut down on cigs you can only do it by reducing the number of smoking sessions, whereas with a vaporiser you can keep your sessions static and just reduce the addictive chemical compound.

In essence it's easier to reduce your nicotine addiction if you can continue to comfort yourself with the physical habit part of the addiction

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#126

Post by Reelin »

jdietrich wrote: post #107
cowsandmilk wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The other is almost entirely a mixture of Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycerin. What an extraordinary meaningless statement. The question is the health effects of vaporizing those and inhaling them (along with other ingredients). You are happy to provide links about health effects of cigarettes, including ingredients present in n minute amounts, but will only provide a list of major ingredients in vaping product…

I don't have time to thoroughly examine your references right now, but I can tell you off the bat that the third study is very poor - they measured vapor samples at 500°F and 600°F, which is substantially in excess of normal vaping temperatures and would almost certainly produce an acrid, foul-tasting vapor. The presence of CO in the vapor samples clearly indicates oxidation rather than vaporisation. Of course you ge…

I think what's going on there is that one of the e-cigs they used had a configurable temperature (200-600 °F). I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they selected a reasonable one (they don't appear to specify in the methods).

Separately, there's the GC-MS machine - oven (30 - 220 °C ramp) and inlet (320 °C). This shouldn't be (much of) an issue though, as an inert carrier gas is used. Plus you always have controls, so if the GC-MS itself is tearing things apart it should hopefully be obvious.

That being said, I didn't see anything particularly concerning listed in their results (relative to recreational cigarette or alcohol consumption).

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#127

Post by Retric »

Reelin wrote: post #117
cowsandmilk wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The other is almost entirely a mixture of Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycerin. What an extraordinary meaningless statement. The question is the health effects of vaporizing those and inhaling them (along with other ingredients). You are happy to provide links about health effects of cigarettes, including ingredients present in n minute amounts, but will only provide a list of major ingredients in vaping product…

> > The other is almost entirely a mixture of Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycerin. > What an extraordinary meaningless statement. Not at all. The point being made is that we're dealing with a product composed primarily (99%) of two chemicals that are very clearly established as safe for human consumption (propylene glycol is commonly _injected_). As such, it seems unreasonable to assume absent evidence that the c…

Fog machines also use a glycol solution, and have been shown to be harmful. Thus vaping glycol may not be safe. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hhe/reports/pdfs/1990-0355-2449.pd...

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#128

Post by Mtinie »

notimetorelax wrote: post #122
Mtinie wrote: post #121

Who benefits from a temporary demand reduction or regulatory shift in vaping? * Health advocates * Alcoholic beverage producers * Tobacco producers (though I believe they have gone all-in on vaping as a healthier replacement) * Black- and grey-market cannabis growers who prefer not to concentrate their product Who else should be on that list? I’m not suggesting a false-flag or major conspiracy, simply that some group…

Society, if those products are found unsafe earlier rather than later.

I agree, but my questions have to do with the economics of the panic, warranted or not.

To build on your comment: Vaping is not a new concept[0] and if the act of vaping itself— rather than a problem with the supply chain (product purity, dosages, etc.)—was the problem why has it taken 13 years in the U.S. to surface?

I can imagine the contemporary spike in numbers of users and frequency has effect on the number of cases. For all we know this condition with the same set of symptoms has been seen before but connections never drawn to a wider-spread problem.

This may be the “earlier discovery” you reference, compared to the decades it took for Society to recognize how dangerous cigarettes are.

[0] http://www.casaa.org/historical-timeline-of-electronic-cigar... (note: industry source)

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#129

Post by dillonmckay »

ryloric wrote: post #114
johngrefe wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a lot safer than smoking, there's probably a lot safer methods, but vapings efficacy vs other quit methods is just too good to discard for even slight health risks vs smoking. Only Juul/Pax has a hidden Big Tobacco interest, the rest are either overt or companies that are dedicated to vapor only. Almost all the innovation came from outside Big Tobacco, but all that is coming to an end with FDA'S regulati…

A bit off topic, but why hasn't the tech advanced too much in the RTA/RDTA area? I tried juul, but pods are just not for me, they produce too little vapour and feel awkward to use. I've been using Creed and Zeus atomizers since I started and they are really low tech with lots of issues, they leak juice, the airflow is not ideal, sometimes they burn the coils too quickly, no one knows what the ideal wick size or thick…

I think it is because the big players know to not get involved, b/c of the FUD, pending legislation, and lawsuit potential.

I would think LG could create an amazong product.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#130

Post by Dylan16807 »

tom_mellior wrote: post #87
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if it really was purely a device for cessation then this could be solved by putting it behind the counter and requiring a prescription. I remember before weed was legal in California there would be a doc office next to a pot shop and you would get your prescription and then walk in. I imagine there would be a market for people who wanted to quit to go to a 5 min doc meeting, they'd verify you're a smoker and…

"Inefficiency" is a weird word for including doctors in healthcare.

To force the involvement of a doctor that is not performing any procedures or making a diagnosis is definitely an inefficiency.
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