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The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

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Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not so bad to depress some of those wages, my plumber is making $2k/Day. I don't know too many people making that kind of money even in tech, let alone other disciplines!

I think your plumber has additional material and labor costs you're not seeing.

Primary cost of labor is your health. Those kind of jobs aren't done by people over 45. The human body degrades during that sort of work.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#202
This is a bit like saying "People buying luxury cars is just a problem with people not having high-paying jobs".

It seems more fruitful to focus on what product is being sold through state-subsidized loans and if they provide the necessary value. Bloated administrations is largely to blame for the increased cost, and a middle class student getting a student loan they can't default on for a degree without earning potential is not a good choice.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average age of cars on the road is 11 years vs 8 years in the 90s...which means cars are on average lasting 37.5% longer than 20 years ago. And that might be a lagging indicator.

It also might be an indicator of how deep the 2008 recession was, and of how big the 90s stock boom was.

No, the measure is average age, which is more indicative of used cars than any largess caused by various boom times. Cars don't get salvaged for spare parts and metal until they're no longer useful as vehicles. They otherwise get resold and traded in and put back out on the road.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you're confusing top-line revenues and profits available for the tradesman. As it stands, you're asserting that your plumber makes approximately 14x the average plumber in America, and 10x the average plumber in San Francisco. This is unlikely to be correct. In a similar vein, Apple takes in over $2,000,000 of revenue per employee, but Genius Bar employees are not taking that amount home. I mention this sol…

I kind of agree with your point, but you really think an average licensed plumber in SF makes $200/day???

Well, I did a cursory search for data, and it seems to indicate that this is the case.

So yes... I think the average plumber in SF is making about $70k/yr. (so ~$300 per day worked, or $200 per day).

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#205
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your plumber has additional material and labor costs you're not seeing.

Primary cost of labor is your health. Those kind of jobs aren't done by people over 45. The human body degrades during that sort of work.

have you heard about age discrimination in tech?

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#206
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't a 28 American with an English major do a coding bootcamp and find an entry level job? I'm sure if he's reasonable intelligent and ambitious he can. There aren't that many h1b's around competing with him, most American jobs aren't h1b jobs.

Why is "do a coding bootcamp" the common refrain from tech workers trying to help non-tech people?

No idea. I think it is somewhat suicidal to want to commodify your own profession.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#207

I'm not sure the author's suggestion that potential students be diverted to trades/coding bootcampts etc., will solve too much, and instead may simply shift the problem into those trade industries as well. Somewhere in the ballpark of 2,000,000 students earn a bachelors degree each year. Let's say 25% of students should be diverted into trade schools instead. That will mean an additional 500,000 student per year ente…

1) if it does turn out to be true that we need "fewer workers", that's great, we just move to a 30-hour work week (or 20, or whatever). We once had 6-day work weeks, or sometimes even 7, and it was productivity gains that allowed us to move to 5. We can move again. 2) But, I'm not sure it's even true. We mostly got to where we are by having all the manufacturing done in 3rd world countries for pennies. It's not that…

I like the idea or shortening the work day, unfortunately the commonman jobs are the ones being automated out of existence. There will only be a smaller percentage of people who can actually do the majority of the jobs. Education may help some with this but only to a certain degree. The days of assembly line work are nearing an end. I don't know what will happen to the population who are unable to work, perhaps more specialization is the answer

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#208

This is a bit like saying "People buying luxury cars is just a problem with people not having high-paying jobs". It seems more fruitful to focus on what product is being sold through state-subsidized loans and if they provide the necessary value. Bloated administrations is largely to blame for the increased cost, and a middle class student getting a student loan they can't default on for a degree without earning pote…

In this case, though, the "product that [was] being sold" that made these students originally go to school, is employment—or rather, a proxy signal for employability that the consumers of the product hope will get them employment. People consume education when they can't find a job, in the hopes that they'll become more employable, even though this makes the problem of their unemployment more dire rather than less (because it adds debt.)

It's sort of like taking stimulants when you're hungry.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#209
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Primary cost of labor is your health. Those kind of jobs aren't done by people over 45. The human body degrades during that sort of work.

have you heard about age discrimination in tech?

I have 50 decades of life and work in tech. You tell me ?

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#210
post #49
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is "do a coding bootcamp" the common refrain from tech workers trying to help non-tech people?

Because the barrier to entry is still quite low. While maybe not "Anyone who could spell HTML could get a job" low, as said in another comment here, it's still so low that I'd wager a decently clever person with a good 3 month bootcamp can get a _entry-level_ job.

It's really become rather saturated at the entry level. It's a market for lemons situations, where there may be a lot of opening, but there's tons of unqualified candidates.
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