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Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

aeon.co

201–210 of 285 posts

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#201
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Frankly, I don't buy it. I'm Jewish too, and was never religious. The parent is not selling anything, simply describing a recurring experience in a lovely way. It's not an argument or a pitch. To each his or her own.

I am sorry, could you kindly explain what you mean when you say that you’re Jewish, but not religious? I thought that if one did not observe certain tenants of Judaism that they were longer Jewish?

It's perfectly acceptable to be secular and still consider yourself to be Jewish.

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#202
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh. It's both, man. EDIT: Downvotes? For stating a fact about Jewish ethnicity and religion? OK, I guess.

Not possible.

...

Alright man. It is, though. I am not sure how this is confusing to you. You're the first person I've ever met who has this problem.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#203
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry, could you kindly explain what you mean when you say that you’re Jewish, but not religious? I thought that if one did not observe certain tenants of Judaism that they were longer Jewish?

It's perfectly acceptable to be secular and still consider yourself to be Jewish. http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

Based on your understanding Christianity is also an ethnicity?

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Jewish but not religious anymore, and I know a lot of people that keep Shabbat that talk like this. Frankly, I don't buy it. If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy. It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6.…

> If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy. > It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6. I don't buy this at all (sidenote: interesting that you decided to use a throwaway for this comment?) - taking a vacation fr…

And you want to stop the pull of a light switch? Or carrying things outside the house?

However if there's a magic rope round the town you can carry things outside?

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#205
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy. No, a recovery period can make a bigger difference. By the same token the recent advice on alcohol is to avoid it at least 2 days out of 7.

Recent advice on alcohol is to avoid it completely: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

That is a recommendation on public health initiatives, not individual consumption.

"When it comes to policy recommendations, it is notable that the authors recommend public health measures to reduce total consumption at a population level, such as “excise taxes on alcohol, controlling the physical availability of alcohol and the hours of sale, and controlling alcohol advertising”. There is no mention of information campaigns or targeting heavy drinkers, which may be less effective ways of reducing average consumption."

The risks they found are actually very small.

"Let’s consider one drink a day (10g, 1.25 UK units) compared to none, for which the authors estimated an extra 4 (918–914) in 100,000 people would experience a (serious) alcohol-related condition. That means, to experience one extra problem, 25,000 people need to drink 10g alcohol a day for a year, that’s 3,650g a year each. To put this in perspective, a standard 70cl bottle of gin contains 224 g of alcohol, so 3,650g a year is equivalent to around 16 bottles of gin per person. That’s a total of 400,000 bottles of gin among 25,000 people, being associated with one extra health problem. Which indicates a rather low level of harm in these occasional drinkers."

https://medium.com/wintoncentre/the-risks-of-alcohol-again-2...

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#206
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany almost every shop is closed on Sundays, with a similar idea behind it. Only the most necessary jobs are done (firefighters and hospital workers) and there is free time for everyone to relax. Now just to tone down the electricity usage.. (but actually Sundays is a good day to use electricity in your home because the commercial use is so much lower)

It's not even remotely true that "[o]nly the most necessary jobs are done" on Sunday; restaurants have no restrictions whatsoever, just to pick one example.

Electrical power stations, security guards, newspapers (they work on Sunday to print the news for momray mornkng), tv and radio, isps, hotels, airports, trains, small shops.

It's basically just big shops that close. Anachronistic practice that makes no sense.

Go to Jerusalem on a Saturday and you'll see what "not working" means. Still plenty of people working though.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was tasked at one point with certifying some aspects of a line of samsung ovens. One of the features that took the longest to validate was the sabbath mode. Normally the oven would turn off if left untouched for 12 hours. With Sabbath mode activated the oven just stay on in perpetuity until turned off. Had to try it once with it off to make sure it turned off, and once with it one, to ensure it didn't. This way you…

Always struck me as strange that cooking is not work, but turning on a oven is. Would starting a fire to cook over be considered work?

As far as I'm aware, starting a fire is what is actually prohibited, and certain modern Jews refuse to activate electric devices on the theory that electricity is a form of fire.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#208
post #94
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. A whole collection of hardware has been developed to weasel out of the religious restrictions. There are "shabbos elevators", which not only stop on every floor (no button pushing), but bypass regenerative braking and dump the energy into a big resistor so as not to "do work". There's the "kosher light switch."[1] This looks like a regular light switch, and performs the same function. But it works by sensing the…

"shabbos elevators" There was one of those at a hotel I stayed at by the Dead Sea, but in general their elevator situation was different than the ones I've seen in the US and Europe: I encountered multiple elevators in Israel where you selected a floor at a central panel outside the elevator, then the elevator itself would arrive and take you to the floor, rather than having the buttons on the inside. I wasn't able t…

I've seen these elevators in uk, Brazil, US and I think Hong Kong (or maybe singapore)

Never in Israel though.

It's apparently more efficient.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I'm mostly ignorant of such practices, what _can_ one do on the sabbath? I assume it's not the case that your entire day is consumed by worship/ceremony/Judaism? Do you spend any time pursuing hobbies? Are there gray areas, where it is open to interpretation whether or not an activity constitutes work? Perhaps you unplug completely and do no computing or telecommunication for the entire sabbath, but is that uni…

Gentile here -- what's not available on the sabbath is probably easier to define. IIRC it mostly consists of things considered to be 'work', but depending on your orthodoxy it is usually the most "active" things that are barred. e.g. cooking w/oven barred, but preparing something to eat is not necessarily barred. Activating a light switch barred, but passively enjoying the light emitted (if it were already on) is not…

One example of “cheating” is the sabbath elevator. As you said activating switches is barred, and that goes for the floor buttons in an elevator as well. So on the sabbath there are elevators that will visit every floor and thus has its buttons disabled.

I find it a fascinating view of ethics. Christians usual try to reason about why a law was made, and see their thoughts and intents as the primary means of wrongdoing, but while Jews appear to be much more beholden to the letter of the law. Basically Christians believe that sin comes from within and Jews believe sin comes from the outside world through their actions. As I understand it.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#210

Kind of have this in Germany, where many businesses are prohibited from being open on Sunday. For example, grocery stores can't be open unless they're at a central train station or airport. In practice, to me it just feels really annoying and limiting. Means I basically have to plan any larger shopping trips for Saturday, even if that doesn't work well for my schedule. I get that they want to make sure workers have e…

Supermarkets are open from 7am to 10pm Monday-Saturday even in small cities. When you can't plan your week around this, you have other problems that won't be solved by abolishing Sunday laws.

If you are living in a small town, you can always move to a bigger city at any time to get the benefits of longer opening hours.

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