Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#151

Post by MrMorden » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 12:47 AM UTC

kaybe wrote: post #138

1337biz wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also sounds like the perfect antidode to social isolation, eg having to meet with people who live nearby, nobody on a hard schedule, common activities and practices, etc.

In Germany almost every shop is closed on Sundays, with a similar idea behind it. Only the most necessary jobs are done (firefighters and hospital workers) and there is free time for everyone to relax. Now just to tone down the electricity usage.. (but actually Sundays is a good day to use electricity in your home because the commercial use is so much lower)

It's not even remotely true that "[o]nly the most necessary jobs are done" on Sunday; restaurants have no restrictions whatsoever, just to pick one example.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#152

Post by briandear » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 12:53 AM UTC

gavman wrote: post #118

mac01021 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I'm mostly ignorant of such practices, what _can_ one do on the sabbath? I assume it's not the case that your entire day is consumed by worship/ceremony/Judaism? Do you spend any time pursuing hobbies? Are there gray areas, where it is open to interpretation whether or not an activity constitutes work? Perhaps you unplug completely and do no computing or telecommunication for the entire sabbath, but is that uni…

For those who are more traditional, the norm is to not use any electricity, from lights to microwaves to cellphones. Part of the time is spent with worship (usually about ~45 mins Friday evening, ~2 hours Saturday morning, and ~15 minutes Saturday evening). It is traditional to have a large meal with family/friends for dinner Friday night and Saturday lunch, and often these meals can go on for 3-4 hours (as a side no…

Is reading a book on a Kindle or iPad fundamentally different than on paper? Is talking to Grandma who lives across the country on Facetime wrong while not talking to her at all is “better?”

It seems like mindfulness of what you are doing is more important than the means by which you do it.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#153

Post by MrMorden » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 12:57 AM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #113

mac01021 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I'm mostly ignorant of such practices, what _can_ one do on the sabbath? I assume it's not the case that your entire day is consumed by worship/ceremony/Judaism? Do you spend any time pursuing hobbies? Are there gray areas, where it is open to interpretation whether or not an activity constitutes work? Perhaps you unplug completely and do no computing or telecommunication for the entire sabbath, but is that uni…

Gentile here -- what's not available on the sabbath is probably easier to define. IIRC it mostly consists of things considered to be 'work', but depending on your orthodoxy it is usually the most "active" things that are barred. e.g. cooking w/oven barred, but preparing something to eat is not necessarily barred. Activating a light switch barred, but passively enjoying the light emitted (if it were already on) is not…

Or, in the case of Mr. Levenson from the article's first paragraph, break the rules entirely.

https://www.sefaria.org/Shabbat.122a.4?ven=William_Davidson_...

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#154

Post by briandear » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 12:58 AM UTC

kaybe wrote: post #138

1337biz wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also sounds like the perfect antidode to social isolation, eg having to meet with people who live nearby, nobody on a hard schedule, common activities and practices, etc.

In Germany almost every shop is closed on Sundays, with a similar idea behind it. Only the most necessary jobs are done (firefighters and hospital workers) and there is free time for everyone to relax. Now just to tone down the electricity usage.. (but actually Sundays is a good day to use electricity in your home because the commercial use is so much lower)

My problem is laws dictating it. Perhaps I want to open my store on Sunday: why is it government’s business? Shouldn’t freedom matter? When I was in France, mandatory closing was horrible. It isn’t like I can go to the French equivalent of Home Depot during the work day. There is always Saturday, but effectively limiting by law to one shopping day per week is ridiculous. It should be the choice of the business owner and the consumer what they’d like to do.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#155

Post by craftyguy » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 1:09 AM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #48

avip wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As we live in a society, it makes sense to have a common day of rest - consider that schools, hospitals, public transit etc. are also resting. Plus your family and friends.

> consider that schools, hospitals, public transit etc. are also resting. Pretty sure two out of three of those aren't really resting. You think hospitals stop working or trains stop running? > it makes sense to have a common day of rest Eh, nah. I'm mostly a social democrat, and I'd be all for better worker protections in general in the US, but I haven't heard any socialists or labor advocates pushing for "oh yeah,…

Teachers definitely do not rest during the weekends, they're preparing lesson plans, grading papers, etc.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#156

Post by briandear » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 1:10 AM UTC

jVinc wrote: post #122

danschumann wrote: post #47

Plenty of religious things are not superstitious, but based on real psychological needs.. people who dismiss them as pure fantasies are missing the point. New Testament is full of such things helpful for psychological maintenance and emotional well-being, if you can get the metaphors. It's why the stories and practice of them have survived so long (because the practicioners survived more frequently and/or saw the val…

Well of cause. People don't dismiss "religious things" like singing, gathering together or confiding in others. They dismiss the religious part of those things. And the assumption that wearing spaghetti strainers or turning off your phone on the weekends will somehow bring you closer to the giant spaghetti monster in the sky. > It's why the stories and practice of them have survived so long (because the practitioners…

> to the giant spaghetti monster in the sky.

It seems like you could make your point without going out of your way to insult people. You don’t have to believe in anything, but wouldn’t it be considered “hate speech” to essentially besmirch those that believe in God? If we said something about an ethnicity’s cultural traditions, would that be acceptable on HN? Of course not. But somehow making fun of someone’s religion, provided it’s Judeo-Christian, seems to be acceptable.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#157

Post by Symbiote » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 1:11 AM UTC

lozaning wrote: post #144

wyldfire wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gentile here -- what's not available on the sabbath is probably easier to define. IIRC it mostly consists of things considered to be 'work', but depending on your orthodoxy it is usually the most "active" things that are barred. e.g. cooking w/oven barred, but preparing something to eat is not necessarily barred. Activating a light switch barred, but passively enjoying the light emitted (if it were already on) is not…

I was tasked at one point with certifying some aspects of a line of samsung ovens. One of the features that took the longest to validate was the sabbath mode. Normally the oven would turn off if left untouched for 12 hours. With Sabbath mode activated the oven just stay on in perpetuity until turned off. Had to try it once with it off to make sure it turned off, and once with it one, to ensure it didn't. This way you…

That "feature" should be illegal.

How do Jews justify wasting so much energy to get around a daft religious rule? If they don't want to observe it, don't observe it, don't just pretend.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#158

Post by briandear » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 1:12 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #105

TulliusCicero wrote: post #18

Kind of have this in Germany, where many businesses are prohibited from being open on Sunday. For example, grocery stores can't be open unless they're at a central train station or airport. In practice, to me it just feels really annoying and limiting. Means I basically have to plan any larger shopping trips for Saturday, even if that doesn't work well for my schedule. I get that they want to make sure workers have e…

Interestingly, I can remember back to my youth in Canada there being a huge uproar about this exact thing. Laws existed that forbid stores from opening on Sunday. Some stores opened anyways and were fined. Eventually the law changed in the late 1980s.

In the US, those were called “Blue Laws.”

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#159

Post by princekolt » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 1:18 AM UTC

chadash wrote: post #50

I'm Jewish and I observe the sabbath. It's quite a liberating experience that the whole world aught to experience. It's a time when I sleep better knowing that I can't turn on my phone or check my email. I eat great sit-down meals with my family and friends, with no outside distractions; no one is eyeing their cellphone or worrying about getting back to work because they can't do either of those things. We'll often m…

> These days, technology is literally built to be addictive.

This is very true and a lot of companies make as much use of it as they can. [1] I think it can be dealt with with some diligence from ourselves though. I would find it impossible to disconnect completely during weekends, since I have many close friends in different countries, and the internet is the only way I have to keep in touch with them. So what I do is disable all mail/notifications from every app that is not the apps I use to talk to them. It's liberating. And most importantly: Disable notifications from the #random channel in the company Slack. That goes for the whole week :p

[1]: https://www.theonion.com/new-facebook-notifications-alert-us...

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#160

Post by wonderbear » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 1:21 AM UTC

palidanx wrote: post #145

mac01021 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I'm mostly ignorant of such practices, what _can_ one do on the sabbath? I assume it's not the case that your entire day is consumed by worship/ceremony/Judaism? Do you spend any time pursuing hobbies? Are there gray areas, where it is open to interpretation whether or not an activity constitutes work? Perhaps you unplug completely and do no computing or telecommunication for the entire sabbath, but is that uni…

As a Seventh-day Adventist (we observe the Sabbath by going to church on Saturday -- but that can lead to an entirely another discussion), I personally view it as a time to disconnect from work, and focus on God, relationships, and the nature around us. In terms of hobbies, this is interesting a point of debate with many Adventists. Some are more 'conservative' where they won't do anything close to resembling work or…

Another Adventist here. One of the best things about living in a community of Adventists is observing Sabbath together. It's still meaningful and refreshing alone, but doing it with all your friends and the neighborhood is incomparably better.

My friends had a whole spectrum of things that were acceptable to do on Sabbath, but the common thread was connection. I miss that intensely, living in the Bay Area.