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Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

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Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#191

Post by sonnyblarney »

yoz-y wrote: post #181
TulliusCicero wrote: post #18

Kind of have this in Germany, where many businesses are prohibited from being open on Sunday. For example, grocery stores can't be open unless they're at a central train station or airport. In practice, to me it just feels really annoying and limiting. Means I basically have to plan any larger shopping trips for Saturday, even if that doesn't work well for my schedule. I get that they want to make sure workers have e…

We have the same thing in France with some weird exception for Paris. I was really glad when I moved to paris and could finally found a shop open at a time when it suited actually employed people. I strongly believe that people's work times should be as desynchronised as possible which would not only make it easier for everybody to handle administrative stuff without having to take off-time from work, but would also…

I find this position to be woefully lacking in cultural perspective.

What is it about we Engineers that we want to put everything in such mechanical terms, like 'handling admin' and 'congestion'?

There are considerable advantages in having most people off on the same time, not the least of bit the inherent deeper relaxation of knowing the rest of the world is off. It's completely another experience when everyone else is down, than when 'just you' are down.

I think a better solution to 'handling administrative stuff' would be to have days for this, and for some things to maybe be open a little later/earlier.

And if congestion is a problem with people on normal hours than this has to be dealt with.

I have this terrible feeling that if we let the cultural secularists at it, we'll all be waking and sleeping at different times, and everything will be 24/7 - after all, 'hey minimal congestion if 1/4 of us are rising at 11pm and going to bed at 2pm!'. Consider the great opportunity for GDP growth!

I think it might be a lifestyle thing ... from 18-34 I too would have felt limited with everything closed Sundays, but now I prefer it. Ironically it was living in France (outside Paris) that made me a 'believer'. It changed my whole view of living.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#192

Post by leyth »

mkirschner wrote: post #164
throwaway715875 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Jewish but not religious anymore, and I know a lot of people that keep Shabbat that talk like this. Frankly, I don't buy it. If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy. It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6.…

>Frankly, I don't buy it. I'm Jewish too, and was never religious. The parent is not selling anything, simply describing a recurring experience in a lovely way. It's not an argument or a pitch. To each his or her own.

I am sorry, could you kindly explain what you mean when you say that you’re Jewish, but not religious?

I thought that if one did not observe certain tenants of Judaism that they were longer Jewish?

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#193

Post by sonnyblarney »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #48
avip wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As we live in a society, it makes sense to have a common day of rest - consider that schools, hospitals, public transit etc. are also resting. Plus your family and friends.

> consider that schools, hospitals, public transit etc. are also resting. Pretty sure two out of three of those aren't really resting. You think hospitals stop working or trains stop running? > it makes sense to have a common day of rest Eh, nah. I'm mostly a social democrat, and I'd be all for better worker protections in general in the US, but I haven't heard any socialists or labor advocates pushing for "oh yeah,…

"If nothing else, in the US this would be seen as a pretty gross abrogation of separation of church and state to make it Sunday"

No. It's as cultural as it is religious, and there are 0 'Social Democrats' against the notion of Sundays off on religious grounds.

"People should absolutely have time off, but I think being more flexible is generally preferable."

And no, there is generally no movement for this nor will there be.

The last thing we need is everything happening 24/7/365.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#194

Post by myegorov »

leyth wrote: post #192
mkirschner wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Frankly, I don't buy it. I'm Jewish too, and was never religious. The parent is not selling anything, simply describing a recurring experience in a lovely way. It's not an argument or a pitch. To each his or her own.

I am sorry, could you kindly explain what you mean when you say that you’re Jewish, but not religious? I thought that if one did not observe certain tenants of Judaism that they were longer Jewish?

This is a common misconception. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#195

Post by dragonsky »

palidanx wrote: post #145
mac01021 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I'm mostly ignorant of such practices, what _can_ one do on the sabbath? I assume it's not the case that your entire day is consumed by worship/ceremony/Judaism? Do you spend any time pursuing hobbies? Are there gray areas, where it is open to interpretation whether or not an activity constitutes work? Perhaps you unplug completely and do no computing or telecommunication for the entire sabbath, but is that uni…

As a Seventh-day Adventist (we observe the Sabbath by going to church on Saturday -- but that can lead to an entirely another discussion), I personally view it as a time to disconnect from work, and focus on God, relationships, and the nature around us. In terms of hobbies, this is interesting a point of debate with many Adventists. Some are more 'conservative' where they won't do anything close to resembling work or…

I wonder who does the work of cooking meals an careing for children during the religious day off?

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#196

Post by dragonsky »

lozaning wrote: post #144
wyldfire wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gentile here -- what's not available on the sabbath is probably easier to define. IIRC it mostly consists of things considered to be 'work', but depending on your orthodoxy it is usually the most "active" things that are barred. e.g. cooking w/oven barred, but preparing something to eat is not necessarily barred. Activating a light switch barred, but passively enjoying the light emitted (if it were already on) is not…

I was tasked at one point with certifying some aspects of a line of samsung ovens. One of the features that took the longest to validate was the sabbath mode. Normally the oven would turn off if left untouched for 12 hours. With Sabbath mode activated the oven just stay on in perpetuity until turned off. Had to try it once with it off to make sure it turned off, and once with it one, to ensure it didn't. This way you…

Always struck me as strange that cooking is not work, but turning on a oven is. Would starting a fire to cook over be considered work?

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#197

Post by leyth »

myegorov wrote: post #194
leyth wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry, could you kindly explain what you mean when you say that you’re Jewish, but not religious? I thought that if one did not observe certain tenants of Judaism that they were longer Jewish?

This is a common misconception. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions

I’ve heard about converting to Judaism. If it is an ethnicity how can that be possible?

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#198

Post by jliptzin »

gavman wrote: post #35

As an Orthodox Jew who observes the Sabbath every week, while sometimes finishing up work and preparations beforehand can be stressful at times, there's no feeling like turning off all phones/laptops/etc Friday evening and leaving it all behind. There's a supreme serenity that comes with the knowledge of "I can't do anything about it, so there's no point in worrying". As soon as Sabbath starts I'm totally focused on…

I am Jewish and don't observe but know a lot that do and also talk about how great it is to be able to leave everything behind on the Sabbath. I can definitely see the value in disconnecting one day a week. However, they also do a lot of really weird things that I can imagine creates even more stress, just for the sake of interpreting religious law as strictly as possible. For example, my friend's cousin accidentally left groceries in the trunk of her car, but since opening the trunk would cause the trunk light to go on, she couldn't do it (nor any jewish person with her apparently) and so food was left to rot in a hot car. I have countless stories like this being around observant Jews my whole life and it seems that is way more stressful, at least to me. Do people really believe God is maintaining a database of all the times someone is technically breaking Shabbat law?

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#199

Post by icelancer »

leyth wrote: post #197
myegorov wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common misconception. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions

I’ve heard about converting to Judaism. If it is an ethnicity how can that be possible?

Uh. It's both, man.

EDIT: Downvotes? For stating a fact about Jewish ethnicity and religion? OK, I guess.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#200

Post by leyth »

icelancer wrote: post #199
leyth wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard about converting to Judaism. If it is an ethnicity how can that be possible?

Uh. It's both, man. EDIT: Downvotes? For stating a fact about Jewish ethnicity and religion? OK, I guess.

Not possible.
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