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Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

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201–210 of 220 posts

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Either the moon is made of cheese or it isn’t” is not a personal belief that should impress anyone.

"I don't have enough knowledge to make a judgement of whether the moon is made of cheese" is a perfectly valid statement. And if you base your personal beliefs on whether they'll impress other people, then I suspect you're making your own life harder for yourself than it needs to be.

[deleted]

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#202
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason to believe intentionally screwing with it's functioning would somehow increase it's ability to perceive the world truthfully. Right, my point is that psychedelics are great for exposing falsehood in your thinking, but not necessarily uncovering truth. > The 'most rational' position lies somewhere in that continuum. When converting to the usual trinary labels, one extreme or the other may end up b…

just wanted to say that i don't understand why you are getting downvoted for this. i found your original comment, and especially the blog excerpt quite reasonable.

> it sounds like you went from being an atheist to an agnostic. That certainly is a more rational and less dogmatic position to take, based on what we know.

Likely because poster is assigning some linear value on metaphysical positions that can not be constrained in such a system.

Agnosticism is more rational than Atheism "based on what we know"? Come on now.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#203
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used drugs extensively-- good ones and bad. I'd be happy to answer any questions, but you're on the right track here except for the ineffable. Drugs distort the pattern matching systems in your brain. You see patterns that are there, patterns that aren't, patterns of patterns, patterns of patterns of patterns. You make connections that you should and shouldn't. If I could describe my phsycelidc experinces--of…

"Any description of the religious experneices ive had would be, inadequate. You've either had one, or they're complete fucking nonsense." I've never used drugs, but based on my experience I totally understand the statement that the purely analytic mode of thought does not encompass the whole of human experience. I had a deeply profound sense of being one with the universe as a teenager after a regular session of medi…

For sure. I think there's a lot of evidence that certain meditative states overlap with some psychedelic states.

But, have you ever had a fully immersive meditative state? Is that possible?

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#204
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Any description of the religious experneices ive had would be, inadequate. You've either had one, or they're complete fucking nonsense." I've never used drugs, but based on my experience I totally understand the statement that the purely analytic mode of thought does not encompass the whole of human experience. I had a deeply profound sense of being one with the universe as a teenager after a regular session of medi…

>I've never used drugs, but based on my experience I totally understand the statement that the purely analytic mode of thought does not encompass the whole of human experience. That's for sure. It's impossible to explain to someone something as mundane how you know how to ride a bike using analytical thought.[1] [1] Witness the endless counter-steering threads on HN.

I want to understand counter steering so badly... I think I do on an intuitive level, as I have ridden a motorcycle for years but I just can't wrap my head around the concept.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used drugs extensively-- good ones and bad. I'd be happy to answer any questions, but you're on the right track here except for the ineffable. Drugs distort the pattern matching systems in your brain. You see patterns that are there, patterns that aren't, patterns of patterns, patterns of patterns of patterns. You make connections that you should and shouldn't. If I could describe my phsycelidc experinces--of…

Most HNer are actually dumb enough (or "scientific" as they like to call it) to believe that material universe exists in some vacuum with all its unbreakable laws, that it came into existence from nothingness, and believe that their lack of ability to explain what consciousness is is just a mere case of not-enough-science-yet. I'm not saying be religious but being staunch atheist and materialist is really no better t…

There's nothing wrong with "playing with your own hypothesis-space" as you put it, but it's stupid to believe in something without any proof that it might be true.

It's fine to think "what if god created the universe" or "what if we're living inside a giant space beaver" or "what if there is another fundamental force responsible for consciousness that we can't measure" but unless you actually have some evidence or reasoning that points in that direction, they are all stupid theories compared to materialism which actually fits into the current scientific world view pretty well.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#206
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got it all backwards. What you think is a crack in sanity is actually a crack in the illusion that the physical world is all there is. But to each their own.

But drugs are a physical-world object exerting physical changes on a meat brain, causing perception shift. How could something of the simulation let you "peek behind the curtain?"

At a minimum, it has to completely shatter any notion that reality and your perception of reality are the same thing.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#207
post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

Maybe it's worth trying a different hallucinogenic before you throw in the towel?

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#208
post #50
post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

I find this very interesting because I had precisely the opposite reaction once when I tried psylocibin. Despite being pretty solidly materialist and agnostic, I'd always held a bit of a soft spot for Cartesian duelism and a bit of a "but it'd be cool if..." What I didn't expect was that the effects wouldn't just "feel real" or "be convincing", they were real. Subjectively, it wasn't inside my head, it was the actual…

"The fact that a small amount of psychoactive substance could fundamentally alter my perceived reality put the final nail in the coffin for any possibility that my mind was generated by something outside my own skull."

Wow awesome insight! Thanks for sharing your experience, this blows my mind. I might be able to try it now without fear of other worldly entity bad trip encounters.

While experiencing a trip, are you able to recall that you took a substance and that this is your altered reality? Can you close your eyes and see darkness? Can you take a benzo to abort trip like shrooms?

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#209
post #116
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this very interesting because I had precisely the opposite reaction once when I tried psylocibin. Despite being pretty solidly materialist and agnostic, I'd always held a bit of a soft spot for Cartesian duelism and a bit of a "but it'd be cool if..." What I didn't expect was that the effects wouldn't just "feel real" or "be convincing", they were real. Subjectively, it wasn't inside my head, it was the actual…

LSD made me go from your run of the mill nihilist to being convinced that even consciousness is a complete illusion and all philosophy is built on this ridiculous lie. It's like solipsism taken one step further, no I'm not the only thing that exists because -I- don't really exist in any meaningful way either. We're all just P-zombies. Qualia is nonsense If you thought relating to normal people as a nihilist was hard.…

Having a hard time understanding the concept of solipsism, can you give an example of it? Thanks.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#210
post #209
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LSD made me go from your run of the mill nihilist to being convinced that even consciousness is a complete illusion and all philosophy is built on this ridiculous lie. It's like solipsism taken one step further, no I'm not the only thing that exists because -I- don't really exist in any meaningful way either. We're all just P-zombies. Qualia is nonsense If you thought relating to normal people as a nihilist was hard.…

Having a hard time understanding the concept of solipsism, can you give an example of it? Thanks.

Someone who is a solipsist believes that the external reality doesn’t exist, e.g. other people are just a figment of your own imagination. Think ”The Matrix”, except you aren’t connected to other real human beings. You never wake up either.
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