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Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

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Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#111

Post by fapjacks »

ozzmotik wrote: post #16
ilackarms wrote: post #2

ibogaine: the only psychedelic people need to know about. and they need to know.

i highly agree that more people should know about ibogaine but at the same time it is important to note that unless you really know what you're doing or you have an experienced professional administering it, you really shouldn't mess around with it. stuff is serious business and not unknown to be fatal. also, i really wouldn't classify it as a psychedelic, as to my understanding it's more of a dissociative, which whi…

Your post is great and I agree with everything in it, except for suggesting ayahuasca to regular people. Over perhaps the last ten or twelve years I have made ayahuasca for people and sat with them during their trip. I strongly recommend people have experience with another psychedelic before trying DMT (or a brew in which DMT is a component, like ayahuasca). I actually generally won't let someone drink ayahuasca unless they've experienced other psychedelics beforehand. I will usually take them on a mushroom trip first. Only one time did I let someone drink ayahuasca without any experience with psychedelics first, and it was the wife of an experienced tripper friend and who also had experience with other substances. That went totally fine, but it is just such an intense hallucinogen (and/or dissociative depending) and it lasts for so long, I just couldn't do that to someone that didn't have a taste of what to expect beforehand.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#112

Post by lwhalen »

komali2 wrote: post #73
some_account wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got it all backwards. What you think is a crack in sanity is actually a crack in the illusion that the physical world is all there is. But to each their own.

But drugs are a physical-world object exerting physical changes on a meat brain, causing perception shift. How could something of the simulation let you "peek behind the curtain?"

in a community of technologists, you've never heard of 'sudo privileges'? :-)

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#113

Post by aarpmcgee »

some_account wrote: post #54
itronitron wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only experienced that ego-death through meditation (twice while I was in high school.) Just wanted to mention that it can be achieved without psychedelics. The easier to describe experience consisted of 'me' as a tiny speck of dust floating in a featureless, dimensionless void. As I tried to grasp a frame of reference I snapped back to my normal reality. I did not meditate much after that, mostly because I felt…

Ego death and then you felt good that you accomplished something? That is the ego being satisfied. There is no ego death. It's part of us.

How do you know?

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#114

Post by collyw »

Jedi72 wrote: post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

Lots of things can potentially destroy healthy minds (relationships for example).

According to David Nutts study psylocibin is regarded as one of the least harmful drugs. I have also seen a study showing that use of psychedelics was associated with lower rates of mental health issues later in life.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal....

Sounds to me like it put a crack in your ego rather than a crack in your sanity.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#115

Post by collyw »

some_account wrote: post #54
itronitron wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only experienced that ego-death through meditation (twice while I was in high school.) Just wanted to mention that it can be achieved without psychedelics. The easier to describe experience consisted of 'me' as a tiny speck of dust floating in a featureless, dimensionless void. As I tried to grasp a frame of reference I snapped back to my normal reality. I did not meditate much after that, mostly because I felt…

Ego death and then you felt good that you accomplished something? That is the ego being satisfied. There is no ego death. It's part of us.

Not according to many experienced mediators.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#116

Post by Lewton »

taneq wrote: post #50
Jedi72 wrote: post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

I find this very interesting because I had precisely the opposite reaction once when I tried psylocibin. Despite being pretty solidly materialist and agnostic, I'd always held a bit of a soft spot for Cartesian duelism and a bit of a "but it'd be cool if..." What I didn't expect was that the effects wouldn't just "feel real" or "be convincing", they were real. Subjectively, it wasn't inside my head, it was the actual…

LSD made me go from your run of the mill nihilist to being convinced that even consciousness is a complete illusion and all philosophy is built on this ridiculous lie.

It's like solipsism taken one step further, no I'm not the only thing that exists because -I- don't really exist in any meaningful way either.

We're all just P-zombies.

Qualia is nonsense

If you thought relating to normal people as a nihilist was hard.....

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#117

Post by collyw »

bfuller wrote: post #103
heracles wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you see it as a indication of the opposite of what we typically call God? That instead of there being an external entity outside our universe interacting with you, you talked to something God-like inside yourself. This might be what you share with every person in history that ever have received divine inspiration. That same experience motivated them. Just like we can share experience with other people when we a…

This person was unwilling or unable to assimilate their experience and now they are blaming LSD. Funny enough, if he kept taking LSD and exploring his spirituality he could deal with the feelings of believing in science but being shaken by the possibility of the supernatural. That's actually pretty straightforward. But he is choosing to close the book on it, and now is blaming the drug when really its himself. An act…

I was thinking something similar.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#118

Post by simplemts »

some_account wrote: post #53
Jedi72 wrote: post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

You got it all backwards. What you think is a crack in sanity is actually a crack in the illusion that the physical world is all there is. But to each their own.

I love your comment =)

I love how people start panicking when their worldview is questioned, by themselves.

What's so wrong with an open mind? I was a firm 100% atheist and became a non-dualist because of my experiences. I'm still INCREDIBLY logical and scientific in 99.99999% of things (I'm a Data Scientist/Analyst for a living). But I will never, ever shake those experiences... once you get a glimpse of 'infinite', it tends to stay with you.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#119

Post by krageon »

axiom92 wrote: post #74
Pimpus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a material universe, to someone who deep down thinks there may be a God, and I may actually have to face some kind of hell for some kind of sins I may unknowingly commit in this life. Well, it sounds like you went from being an atheist to an agnostic. That certainly is a more rational and less dogmatic position to take, based on what we know. As for the Hell…

>Well, it sounds like you went from being an atheist to an agnostic. That certainly is a more rational and less dogmatic position to take, based on what we know. What we know is that there is absolutely no proof that God exists. With that being the case, I don't see why being an atheist is not the most rational position to take. Can I win a $100 million lottery someday? Sure. Should I be living my life believing that…

Atheism says "god does not exist and I'm sure about this". This is exactly like saying "it's impossible for me to win the lottery" - that is the stupid position to take, because you know in this case it is untrue. Anything theological is impossible to prove one way or the other (or at least I've never heard of anything remotely approaching proof) and therefore a position of certainty one way or the other must be lunacy.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#120

Post by simplemts »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #63

Aldous Huxley, dying of terminal cancer, took LSD on his deathbed, and died while on his final trip (it was planned that way), although a relatively low dose of 100ug. It seems to me like it would be a good way to go, a good way to conquer the fear of the unknown after you die. In a related experience, once when I was on a bender, I took 3 tabs of lsd, along with a whole plethora of other substances. I actually thoug…

Technically he took 200ug. First 100ug intravenous, then his wife injected another dose of 100ug.
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