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Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

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Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#81

Post by andrei_says_ »

komali2 wrote: post #75
andrei_says_ wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He says what he did, and what was done back in the 50s and 60s before it became illegal, was to have an experienced therapist check his mental health, describe what was likely to happen, and give him guidance on how to deal with what he experienced. He then took the substance(s) and was guided by this professional while he had his experience. Then there was a debriefing where they went over what he experienced. I c…

It's not helpful, if you want I guess we can start talking about Nixon and the drug wars and Iran contra and if we really wanna get into it light a joint cause before you know it I'll be ranting about the CIA selling coke in the streets and the American government's war on black people. Fucking bullshit war on drugs man. Why doesn't our government have room for rationality?

Because the rational amongst us don’t vote as much? Because campaigns for both parties get funded by the same handful of people? Because we’re a religious country with a weakness for extremist views, and religion has been appropriated and weaponized by political forces?

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#82

Post by therein »

taneq wrote: post #50
Jedi72 wrote: post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

I find this very interesting because I had precisely the opposite reaction once when I tried psylocibin. Despite being pretty solidly materialist and agnostic, I'd always held a bit of a soft spot for Cartesian duelism and a bit of a "but it'd be cool if..." What I didn't expect was that the effects wouldn't just "feel real" or "be convincing", they were real. Subjectively, it wasn't inside my head, it was the actual…

Yup, when I consumed some `golden teacher` and started perceiving the people around me in `The Simpsons Cartoon Style` rendered in realtime with perfect realism replacing my reality, I was sold on that being a very real possibility as well.

And music... It takes a whole other dimension. Calling it `high def` doesn't do it any justice. Experiencing music aside, it feels as though you live the music you are hearing. It is hard to explain. It also becomes your reality.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#83

Post by nugga »

stryk wrote: post #8
koverstreet wrote: post #3

> The way [psilocybin is] being used is in a very controlled or guided setting. ... They don't just give you a pill and send you home; you're in a room. You're with two guides, one male, one female. You're lying down on a comfortable couch. You're wearing headphones listening to a really carefully curated playlist of music — instrumental compositions for the most part — and you're wearing eyeshades, all of which is t…

Laying around on a couch sounds like a waste of a good shroom buzz. Shrooms are much more fun if you're with a medium-to-large sized group of people who all know and are comfortable around each other, all of whom are on around the same dose. They're so much more of a body buzz and less of a mindfuck than LSD/DMT. Then there's PCP... which is less of a mindfuck and more of a fuckyou.

I wonder how wise it is to be with other people when you're on psychedelics. It's possible that on psychedelics you're much more susceptible and vulnerable to all sorts of visible and invisible outside influence that you may not be aware of.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#84

Post by King-Aaron »

some_account wrote: post #54
itronitron wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only experienced that ego-death through meditation (twice while I was in high school.) Just wanted to mention that it can be achieved without psychedelics. The easier to describe experience consisted of 'me' as a tiny speck of dust floating in a featureless, dimensionless void. As I tried to grasp a frame of reference I snapped back to my normal reality. I did not meditate much after that, mostly because I felt…

Ego death and then you felt good that you accomplished something? That is the ego being satisfied. There is no ego death. It's part of us.

> There is no ego death. It's part of us.

I'm not entirely sure you're reading the definition correctly. It's a "complete loss of subjective self-identity", not so much your "ego" no longer being there.

(Apologies if I missed what you're getting at, though)

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#85

Post by Numberwang »

Pimpus wrote: post #78
xcvbxzas wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Well, it sounds like you went from being an atheist to an agnostic. That certainly is a more rational and less dogmatic position to take, based on what we know. I'm not sure why this argument shows so often (and it's not even limited to religion), but it's an incredibly bad one. The positions here are not a ternary matter. The options are not limited to 100% one way, 100% the other, or right in the middle. The 'most…

> There is no reason to believe intentionally screwing with it's functioning would somehow increase it's ability to perceive the world truthfully. Right, my point is that psychedelics are great for exposing falsehood in your thinking, but not necessarily uncovering truth. > The 'most rational' position lies somewhere in that continuum. When converting to the usual trinary labels, one extreme or the other may end up b…

“Either the moon is made of cheese or it isn’t” is not a personal belief that should impress anyone.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#86

Post by nugga »

Jedi72 wrote: post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

When you became more aware of how what you do affects other people you can take note, step up your game and improve. I'd hope you aren't judged as harshly for things you may have done when you were in the dark so to speak.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#87

Post by lobster_johnson »

gepi79 wrote: post #67
newnewpdro wrote: post #51

The world would be a better place if everyone ate magic mushrooms in the wilderness on a camping trip as part of outdoor ed. in school. If you've never experienced it, you probably won't understand.

I wish people would stop the unhealthy and irresponsible and dangerous life-destroying hype and promotion of psychedelics including cannabis. All medical experts warn against the use of drugs and psychedelics except as medical tools of medical experts. Drugs and psychedelics can trigger all kinds of long term mental disorders that even the best experts might not be able to heal. Medical science and psychology are sti…

It's pretty clear from your comment that you don't know anything about magic mushrooms.

I could understand your response if the parent were speaking about LSD or bath salts or something else that have been known to give people bad, destructive trips. But shrooms?

Psilocybin is known as the gentlest and most enjoyable psychedelic there is. Adverse reactions are rare, and as far as I know nobody has ever come out of a shroom trip with their brains scrambled. Personally, I find that the experience isn't so much a "trip", but rather a gentle, beautiful and interesting set of visual effects. I don't hallucinate people or supernatural beings, but I do see colours around the edges of things, and repeating fractal patterns everywhere, and enjoy a strangely improved acuity of vision.

Shrooms are also a type of drug where you can derive a psychological benefit from very small doses (or microdoses) that essentially provides no "trip" at all. There's promising research showing benefits for depression and PTSD. Not to mention that psilocybin is not addictive.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#88

Post by heracles »

Jedi72 wrote: post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

Can't you see it as a indication of the opposite of what we typically call God? That instead of there being an external entity outside our universe interacting with you, you talked to something God-like inside yourself. This might be what you share with every person in history that ever have received divine inspiration. That same experience motivated them. Just like we can share experience with other people when we are happy, tired of drunk. But this one requires a more complicated key to access, which could be elaborate practices or a drug.

I might be wrong, but I find these psilocybin experiments extremely enlightening as to why we as humans struggle so much with religious experience.

Did my suggestion make sense? I tried to word it as plainly as possible, but these are things we aren't used to discuss...

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#89

Post by motdiem »

tiisetso wrote: post #62

Podcast: Pollan's interview on the Tim Ferriss show for additional thoughts. Ferriss is committing a million USD over the next few years to support the scientific study of psychedelic compounds. Audio link just a slight scroll in. https://tim.blog/2018/05/06/michael-pollan-how-to-change-you...

I found the conversation very interesting- made me want to read the book.

As an aside, I liked how when they weee discussing mental health, pollan put forward that the classifications that we use today (say differentiating between depression and anxiety) are more rooted in legacy and institutions and less in what the current science sees of what’s happening in the brain. Thought this was an interesting way to frame things.

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