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I went to Nigeria to meet a man who scammed me

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Re: I went to Nigeria to meet a man who scammed me

#201
post #94

Surprised this wasn't mentioned, but it's worth noting that traveling to Nigeria to meet scammers rarely ends well for the traveler. It's not safe. It sounds like she had a unique situation with an apparently repentant scammer, but these people are criminals, and they've already demonstrated their lack of respect for you.

Most people blow the risks of travel out of all proportion.

I have traveled to known "dangerous" countries and the locals are usually way friendlier because of that. Learn who to trust, make a friend, listen to the locals. The same skills you need in your own country to avoid scams and danger can be used overseas.

My experience is that most warnings (by people that haven't traveled to the country in question) are pure rubbish generated by neurotic fear of the alien. For example: Don't travel to the US because you will get shot.

If a Facebook billionaire can walk the streets of Nigeria, you can probably do so too.

Re: I went to Nigeria to meet a man who scammed me

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is proof to the contrary that "startups work" and that working for equity is a good use of someone's time. I still believe it. It's kind of irrational and outlandish. When I work on startups with others, this isn't a scam. So your terms "irrational", "outlandish", "without a shred of proof" or with "proof to the contrary" is insufficient. You need to come up with a more polarizing differential that can differen…

There's a difference between a low probability of success that has a net negative financial value (startups, lotteries, America's Cup bids) and fraud. In one case, there are just big risks that on average won't work out. In the other, there is no possibility for success because one party has no intention of following through on their promises. If the scammer were actually in love, and just taking the money with the i…

>There's a difference between a low probability of success that has a net negative financial value (startups, lotteries, America's Cup bids) and fraud.

That's not my point. if there's even a SINGLE person who is checking off all of the fraud checkmarks but is genuine, then it's more like a lottery.

For example, the famous Fedex story (you can google) where Fedex didn't have just a few more weeks of cash runway and would have had to shutter as it tried to raise it's investment round, and the founder gambled in Vegas to make their fuel run. Google that story.

100% scammer red flags - except it's real.

So, we have to differentiate. The mother in this equation is playing a lottery ticket that this particular person isn't a scammer. If there's even a single genuine story like that, anywhere, then that means it's a lottery ticket.

So it's not as simple as you say. For your question at the end, yes, I have seen that. :)

Re: I went to Nigeria to meet a man who scammed me

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between a low probability of success that has a net negative financial value (startups, lotteries, America's Cup bids) and fraud. In one case, there are just big risks that on average won't work out. In the other, there is no possibility for success because one party has no intention of following through on their promises. If the scammer were actually in love, and just taking the money with the i…

>There's a difference between a low probability of success that has a net negative financial value (startups, lotteries, America's Cup bids) and fraud. That's not my point. if there's even a SINGLE person who is checking off all of the fraud checkmarks but is genuine, then it's more like a lottery. For example, the famous Fedex story (you can google) where Fedex didn't have just a few more weeks of cash runway and wo…

You're not understanding my point: fraud requires intent.

Re: I went to Nigeria to meet a man who scammed me

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've become acquainted with a few 419ers (Nigerian) during trips to Ghana (not the big boys, who are without fail sleaze bags, but the grunts, some of whom are very nice in person) and have done quite some research on how they and the scams work. When it comes to 419ers, they have a wide network across the world. They can get a guy to pick up cash or meet someone, today if need be. It might not even be a Nigerian, th…

Dude, you have GOT to write this up in muuuuuhuch more detail. This is fascinating!! You're a good writer but obviously these few paragraphs are off-the-cuff. Couldn't you make a longer version? I would be careful about your personal association (I mean can you write in a way that isn't linked to you), I hope you can do so anonymously. Very interesting reading! Thanks. Here's a vote for writing more!

Hey, thanks. Perhaps I might, not right now though. I'm not very worried about the association, these things aren't that secret.

I can tell you though that there is some more disturbing things going on in Ghana, with what they call Sakawa Boys. Sakawa is the name for online scams. Sakawa Boys are more into carding/skimming, but there is a way darker side to Sakawa which I don't think is happening with the 419ers. They are also much less approachable, at least to me, Nigerians (at least in Ghana) tend to be very easy going and open.

The thing with Sakawa is that it is tied up with juju/voodoo and dark magic. They will perform various rituals to earn magic, money attracting powers. I'm interested in magic myself but stay the hell away from this. It's hard to know what's real and how the whole thing works, but young men (around 20) often unemployed, poor and lusting for a western lifestyle, status and respect will go to a witch doctor to get magical powers.

The witch doctor will tell them to perform a ritual. It may involve snakes or other animals, but sometimes they will be told to kill a person and bring, well, body parts. After that they will get magic money earning powers. It's shrouded in secrecy and nobody likes to talk about this but I think it's similar to entering a gang, you need to prove yourself. Same thing which also happens in secret societies. It's a way of building unbreakable loyalty because you have done something unthinkable together. The difference with criminal gangs in the west is the whole dark magic thing. Really, it's just about power, bonds and hierarchy.

The thing is, you will see young men (the big boys, usually, around 30 perhaps) with extremely luxurious cars. In an area with people living in shacks you will see someone roll up in a Bentley, even. I don't quite understand how they make all that money. Even young men will have bags of cash. There are Sakawa girls too, who will romance you and steal your card.

This is much harder to know about because nobody will talk about it. I suspect it also involves the drug trade, since West Africa has become a port for cocaine from South America. Sometimes a boat will come ashore with mountains of coke.

There is a guy in the area where I use to visit who always walks around completely naked, in a zombie like state. He could have been 17 last time I was there almost three years ago. I was told someone had performed voodoo on him and he was unable to wear clothes. I'm pretty sure he has been given datura, which may well be the worst drug known to man (apparently, the British soldiers who fought down Bacon's Rebellion took it).

These witch doctors wield considerable power and are a huge problem in parts of West Africa.

Thanks again, I'll write something up when I get some inspiration and peace and quiet.

Re: I went to Nigeria to meet a man who scammed me

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, you have GOT to write this up in muuuuuhuch more detail. This is fascinating!! You're a good writer but obviously these few paragraphs are off-the-cuff. Couldn't you make a longer version? I would be careful about your personal association (I mean can you write in a way that isn't linked to you), I hope you can do so anonymously. Very interesting reading! Thanks. Here's a vote for writing more!

Hey, thanks. Perhaps I might, not right now though. I'm not very worried about the association, these things aren't that secret. I can tell you though that there is some more disturbing things going on in Ghana, with what they call Sakawa Boys. Sakawa is the name for online scams. Sakawa Boys are more into carding/skimming, but there is a way darker side to Sakawa which I don't think is happening with the 419ers. The…

read this. also fascinating. yes, write it up if you find a good medium (hint hint) to publish it on.

question: you write in one point here "I'm interested in magic myself." You can't say that to this crowd if you said it I would stop reading your article for credibility reasons. So if you believe that any kind of magic or spells exist (that aren't tricks), then you should separate out this belief from your report, because (just telling you honestly) it makes you lose any credibility. if by 'interested in magic' you meant like tricks/illusion (rather than actual magic, which most people here would say doesn't exist) then you should be more explicit.

you've written a lot more interesting things here than even in your original reply. I am fascinated and hope you will find the time to write it up. if you submit it to HN you can refer to this thread where I asked you to :) very very interesting.

Re: I went to Nigeria to meet a man who scammed me

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's a difference between a low probability of success that has a net negative financial value (startups, lotteries, America's Cup bids) and fraud. That's not my point. if there's even a SINGLE person who is checking off all of the fraud checkmarks but is genuine, then it's more like a lottery. For example, the famous Fedex story (you can google) where Fedex didn't have just a few more weeks of cash runway and wo…

You're not understanding my point: fraud requires intent.

that's not a good differentiator because by the definition you have just given, any fraudster who themselves convinces themselves to believe their scam is no longer committing a scam. I reject that suggestion.

from the startup world, uBeam is a fraud, it's a scam: but it doesn't matter if their intent is valid or if they have convinced themselves to believe it. (I mention this as it's one of the only examples from the startup world.)

the legal situation may be different, but as a practical matter I don't think what you're saying is enough.

Re: I went to Nigeria to meet a man who scammed me

#208
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an interesting concept I read about, how members of doomsday cults tend to believe MORE strongly after the doomsday date passes and everything is shown to be false. It's something about cognitive dissonance. I wonder if there is a known way to convince someone who is in this state. Cult debunkers and such might have thoughts?

William Miller predicted Jesus' return in the year 1843. When that didn't happen, he adjusted his calculations to mean March 21, 1844. When that failed, it became October 22, 1844. He kept modifying his prediction whenever it failed. You'd think being constantly proven wrong would make people stop believing him. That's how the Seventh-day Adventist Church was started. A church that today has more than 18 million memb…

SDA here -- that's partially true, but at some point he did realize there was no actual prediction in scripture about a specific date for the second coming. The church has made no such claims since the 19th century.

Re: I went to Nigeria to meet a man who scammed me

#209
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the moment, I'm afraid I'm unable to muster the empathy necessary to understand how you could even begin to help the scammer. Is there anyone who can still empathize with her? Strategize with them to help her. Make them the goto person that talks about this topic with her while you are in the background. One of the biggest lessons in my life that I've learned is if I can't empathize with someone, it is very unlike…

OP is saying they can't empathize with the scammer , not with their mother-in-law (although that may also be true).

I read it as unable to empathize with somebody helping the scammer, which is dangerously close to his MIL.

Re: I went to Nigeria to meet a man who scammed me

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a bad idea. A family member could offer to help the next transfer by personally delivering the cash, just to make sure that such a large transfer is safe.

Wouldn't that constitute theft, though? The intented recipient is stealing, for sure, but if she wants to send the money and you pretend to deliver but keep it...

Yes, that's fishy. And if the scammer has some balls, he will talk the victim into sending the cops after you. Have fun.
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