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Women are leaving the tech industry in droves

latimes.com

21–30 of 39 posts

Re: Women are leaving the tech industry in droves

#21
The facts of article don't support the headline, since the numbers they reference are for total female percentages, not attrition numbers. Sounds to me that it's not that they're leaving, but they didn't get there in the first place.

What got me was the last quote from Garann Means - "The main thing would be professionalism. Just being able to treat each other with respect would be huge."

Those words echo exactly what my wife says almost daily, and she is a non-tech manager at a non-tech company.

Re: Women are leaving the tech industry in droves

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go away

This is pretty much the worst possible way to respond to an opinion you seemingly disagree with. Where is the misogyny you see? I, like many others, see where we work as equal opportunity environments and note that the same opinion is shared by those considered minorities. If you've been exposed to something different, that's fine and can be a relevant addition to a discussion that you're flat out refusing to have be…

It was offensive and dismissive, so I responded in kind.

Anyone who is so ignorant as to deny the rampant misogyny in tech -- in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary -- is not someone who is going to be swayed by any appeal to reason and so I'm not going to waste my time in vain.

Re: Women are leaving the tech industry in droves

#23

The article begins by introducing Ana Redmond, who "launched into a technology career ... well-equipped to succeed ... In 2011, after 15 years, she left before achieving a management position." The article ends by telling us "Redmond now runs her own business making educational apps for children." I'm sorry, but how does founding a company that builds apps count as "leaving the tech industry"? I'm sure women face man…

Well it was written by a woman...

Re: Women are leaving the tech industry in droves

#25
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am. I am explicitly arguing that not only that there is little to no misogyny it tech but even further, that the tech industry goes above and beyond to no be any of your favorite "- ists"

And you're therefore part of the problem. Congratulations.

You are a solider looking for an enemy. Congratulations.

Re: Women are leaving the tech industry in droves

#26
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is arguing there isn't misogyny in tech. There is misogyny almost everywhere. It's been a part of our culture for a very long time and it will take time and continued efforts to solve the problem, but trying to determine which problems are the most obvious is part of the solution and does nothing to undermine the fact that there is a problem. This doesn't appear to highlight the problem. I'm open…

Did you read the article ? It clearly highlighted the problem. According to the Harvard study, they include a "hostile" male culture, a sense of isolation and lack of a clear career path. Examples include: Redmond, now 40, didn't want to leave her tech career. But she felt stuck, with no way to advance ; Chou, "The continuous pattern of all these people treating me like I didn't know what was going on, or excluding m…

> "The continuous pattern of all these people treating me like I didn't know what was going on, or excluding me from conversations and not trusting my assertions, all these things added up and it felt like there was an undercurrent of sexism"

Well, this happens to men as well. I'm a male engineer and not being asked, not being trusted is just how it works at my current job. YMMV

The reason why we are seeing negative reactions here might be that some people are seriously tired of everything being sexism.[1]

[1]: e.g. "Donglegate" Adria Richards, who cost two people their jobs because she 1.) most likely misunderstood a joke that was not meant for her 2.) misused female privilege (yes, they exist as well)

Re: Women are leaving the tech industry in droves

#27
I'm sorry, but I don't see the issue. I continue to see article after article about women not being in the tech space, but being in corp. tech for over 10 years - outside of larger conservative tech companies such as IBM, the issue isn't that women cannot obtain advancement but more so of the ratio of woman/men in the tech sector. Should I be upset that when I go for my checkup, that I see primarily Asian doctors? Are they getting greater advancement because they are Asian? Or it is the fact that 1 segment of the population has a larger number entering that space?

"Her male bosses told her she'd built it without permission. Then they said only architects within the company could pitch features — and all the architects were male."

^^ As a white male, I had recently done this in my job and was told the same. Our protocol as that we are required to request permission prior to developing new features. This is not uncommon.

"It's why the industry is so eager to hire women and minorities. For decades tech companies have relied on a workforce of whites and Asians, most of them men."

facepalm Really? Where are the women who are crying out for equal rights? As a white male, I would assume companies would seek the best that they could find, rather than seek to locate a segment of the population that is less inclined to enter the tech space.

This is just a poorly written article to draw in readers, and a few instances of people that had bad experiences in their own workplace rather than industry facts. We are have bad experiences in life and work, regardless of our sex, age, race, or religion. While I am not saying that it does not happen, I am saying that this is a "junk" piece created for readership that is pro woman man slapping.

Re: Women are leaving the tech industry in droves

#28
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is arguing there isn't misogyny in tech. There is misogyny almost everywhere. It's been a part of our culture for a very long time and it will take time and continued efforts to solve the problem, but trying to determine which problems are the most obvious is part of the solution and does nothing to undermine the fact that there is a problem. This doesn't appear to highlight the problem. I'm open…

Did you read the article ? It clearly highlighted the problem. According to the Harvard study, they include a "hostile" male culture, a sense of isolation and lack of a clear career path. Examples include: Redmond, now 40, didn't want to leave her tech career. But she felt stuck, with no way to advance ; Chou, "The continuous pattern of all these people treating me like I didn't know what was going on, or excluding m…

I'm sure he won't disagree with the fact that some environments are hostile.

The issue arises around the fluff piece with your example: "Redmond, now 40, didn't want to leave her tech career. But she felt stuck..." Tell me 1 person in america that doesn't or hasn't felt this way in a career or a job. The real issue is...if those were men, we would not be having this conversation and you would be saying "suck it up".

Re: Women are leaving the tech industry in droves

#29
His black pants wearing bosses told him he'd built it without permission. Then they said only architects within the company could pitch features — and all the architects were wearing black pants !

"Clearly this is not a coincidence. It has nothing to do with this company just being dysfunctional and unwelcoming of individual initiatives or anything, no : this has got to be discrimination against people wearing blue pants like myself ! This would definitely never happen to my colleagues who prefer black pants. I'm sure you can find other stories of blue pants-wearing people like myself who at least once didn't get that promotion, and make a nice article about it with a catchy headline. Go to work, journalist !"

Gender discrimination in tech might exist, but it will take more than anecdotal stories like these thrown together to establish causation.

Any white male developer with some big corp experience will have experienced the frustrating situation described above. This is the control group, and it says your "gender" variable in that particular experiment is BS.

Some white males never get "that" promotion either, I'm sure you can find enough of them to make a nice article about it. They just don't have the opportunity of blaming it on their genitals nor do they have support groups dedicated to them.

The constant use of fallacies and sensationalism by well-meaning (and less well-meaning) feminists is doing a disservice to taking these issues seriously where they do exist, IMHO.

Re: Women are leaving the tech industry in droves

#30
post #21

The facts of article don't support the headline, since the numbers they reference are for total female percentages, not attrition numbers. Sounds to me that it's not that they're leaving, but they didn't get there in the first place. What got me was the last quote from Garann Means - "The main thing would be professionalism. Just being able to treat each other with respect would be huge." Those words echo exactly wha…

Barbie taught a generation that "math is hard". Journalists shouldn't be expected to investigate numbers beyond how well they sit with the text in their screed.
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