The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation • Hacker News Board

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#21

Post by lnxg33k1 » Tue, Feb 15, 2022, 3:22 PM UTC

baronswindle wrote: post #17

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, in Italy this issue was solved during ww-2 time, a bunch of commercial newspapers from far-left to right (we couldn't have far-right back then, of course :D, we still can't but people has forgot and so we have now, but they can't really read and write), created a cooperative called ANSA ( https://www.ansa.it ), that is no opionion, no controlling point of view, just facts as they happen ( https://en.wik…

We do have the Associated Press (AP), which seems similar to what you describe. That said, even such sources can be guilty of ideological bias if they choose to report certain facts and not others. In practice, I think AP is pretty even-handed, but I think that is as much a result of their editorial process as it is of their focus on factual reporting over opinion/analysis.

Ah yeah I forgot that AP is American, it's my go-to place for non-italian news, yeah ok nevermind my reply then.. interesting the point you make about their bias, not being there and following the scenarios in person I can only read it from across the ocean so I didn't know that...

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#22

Post by micromacrofoot » Tue, Feb 15, 2022, 3:23 PM UTC

Tycho wrote: post #3

“Misinformation” appears to be a term used by people who don’t want to take on the burden of proof when accusing someone of lying.

That seems like a dangerous generalization that someone can use to hand-wave away any actual misinformation, which as the blog mentions, does exist and is spread (albeit by a small percentage of very prolific posters).

Misinformation exists, and it is a problem. At this point we've seen some evidence that state actors put some of it out there during the 2016/2020 elections, and it can be spread organically.

That said, it's not nearly as widespread or problematic as it's made to be by much of popular media.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#23

Post by BitwiseFool » Tue, Feb 15, 2022, 3:25 PM UTC

I've also noticed that the term "willful ignorance" gets thrown around a lot more nowadays. There is a sizeable contingent of people who are so convinced that what they believe is the absolute truth that any disagreement or critique must therefore be out of malice rather than genuine disagreement.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#24

Post by phreeza » Tue, Feb 15, 2022, 3:28 PM UTC

baronswindle wrote: post #13

phreeza wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What has become worse is the centralised control of information. Which then leads to those centralised sources complaining and publicising of the issue. It seems to me like the opposite is the case, there is much less centralization than there used to be. There does seem to be some emergent synchronization of opinions but that is not the same.

I think that's what the GP means by centralized control becoming worse. That is, information is less centralized now, and the sources that used to be at the center are now complaining about the issue.

Oh ok yea that would make sense. Worse in the sense of less efficient.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#25

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Feb 15, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

BeefWellington wrote: post #16

gorwell wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you hear the word `misinformation`, you can generally substitute with `wrongthink`. It makes much more sense that way.

I dunno about that. Thought experiment: The Earth is a flat disc. Is this misinformation, wrongthink, or both? To be sure it's a vague term applied quite continuously online but simply deflecting it as actually meaning "wrongthink" is disingenuous. There's a lot of misinformation being spread specifically about objective measurable facts. It is simultaneously true that a lot of opinions are being mislabeled as misinf…

[deleted]

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#26

Post by brigandish » Tue, Feb 15, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #15

Tycho wrote: post #3

“Misinformation” appears to be a term used by people who don’t want to take on the burden of proof when accusing someone of lying.

I think it is more useful to describe the situations where: - accusing someone of lying has no restraining impact on the person or the lie, and indeed where it might have a magnifying effect or - the lie is being shared by someone who has been lied to and does not know it; they aren't a liar but they are misinformers. Calling the "Covid hasn't even been isolated" misinformation a lie, for example, requires knowing th…

> accusing someone of lying has no restraining impact on the person or the lie

Should an accusation alone have that effect?

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#27

Post by pdonis » Tue, Feb 15, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #19

The biggest change is how aware we are of others' views. The internet thrives on showing you people who are "wrong". I wish we would do away with public opinion polling as news. It does nothing to actually inform or help people, but it makes us obsessed with culture wars. Only 60 something percent of Americans believed the moon landings were real the year they happened. Imagine if someone flashed on the screen to tel…

> Only 60 something percent of Americans believed the moon landings were real the year they happened.

What is your basis for this? Were you alive then? I was. I watched the first Moon landing on television. Nobody was talking about how it was faked.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#28

Post by feurio » Tue, Feb 15, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #5

One of the worst example that I bring (unfortunately) in my mind, was from like mid-pandemic, when people around was complaining due to newspapers (in that occasion, the BBC in particular), for spreading misinformation.. and you know why they were spreading misinformation? Because they were supporting the right of chronicles by reporting about protests against coronavirus lockdown protests... this was the spreading o…

> things that are happening but are wrong for wokes

I'll admit that I found parsing the whole comment rather difficult so I may have missed something, but what are "wokes"?

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#29

Post by HPsquared » Tue, Feb 15, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #23

I've also noticed that the term "willful ignorance" gets thrown around a lot more nowadays. There is a sizeable contingent of people who are so convinced that what they believe is the absolute truth that any disagreement or critique must therefore be out of malice rather than genuine disagreement.

Most peoples' conclusions are based on some kind of logical deduction. Where people differ is the fundamental "beliefs" which are treated axiomatically (taken on faith) on which the logical superstructure is built.

Edit: people also assign different "comparative value" to different things. Most value judgements involve comparing apples and oranges, but one person might have a preference for oranges and someone else might prefer the apples. Not for any "rational" reason.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#30

Post by lmm » Tue, Feb 15, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

BeefWellington wrote: post #16

gorwell wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you hear the word `misinformation`, you can generally substitute with `wrongthink`. It makes much more sense that way.

I dunno about that. Thought experiment: The Earth is a flat disc. Is this misinformation, wrongthink, or both? To be sure it's a vague term applied quite continuously online but simply deflecting it as actually meaning "wrongthink" is disingenuous. There's a lot of misinformation being spread specifically about objective measurable facts. It is simultaneously true that a lot of opinions are being mislabeled as misinf…

> The Earth is a flat disc.

> Is this misinformation, wrongthink, or both?

You missed the fourth option: it's neither. No-one would call it misinformation or wrongthink; rather it's false, or a lie if you're feeling judgemental. I think the person you replied to has made a good point.