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The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

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Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#11

Post by phreeza »

verisimi wrote: post #2

"I do not think there is much evidence that misinformation has become more widespread, that this increase in misinformation is due to technological change, or that it is at the root of the political trends liberals are most angry about. If anything, people seem to be better-informed than in the past" I agree. Who has the truth? Government or media? Or neither? What has become worse is the centralised control of infor…

> What has become worse is the centralised control of information. Which then leads to those centralised sources complaining and publicising of the issue.

It seems to me like the opposite is the case, there is much less centralization than there used to be. There does seem to be some emergent synchronization of opinions but that is not the same.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#12

Post by unfocussed_mike »

From the article:

> That said, I do not think there is much evidence that misinformation has become more widespread, that this increase in misinformation is due to technological change, or that it is at the root of the political trends liberals are most angry about.

I don't know if misinformation is at the root of the political trends liberals are most angry about, not least because it really depends on the author's definition of "liberal", a word that appears to have only pejorative meaning for most people now.

But it definitely is interesting to consider whether for example QAnon has spread more quickly than the conspiracy theories that led to the First World War, not least because QAnon hasn't yet started a war. Give it time.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#13

Post by baronswindle »

phreeza wrote: post #11
verisimi wrote: post #2

"I do not think there is much evidence that misinformation has become more widespread, that this increase in misinformation is due to technological change, or that it is at the root of the political trends liberals are most angry about. If anything, people seem to be better-informed than in the past" I agree. Who has the truth? Government or media? Or neither? What has become worse is the centralised control of infor…

> What has become worse is the centralised control of information. Which then leads to those centralised sources complaining and publicising of the issue. It seems to me like the opposite is the case, there is much less centralization than there used to be. There does seem to be some emergent synchronization of opinions but that is not the same.

I think that's what the GP means by centralized control becoming worse. That is, information is less centralized now, and the sources that used to be at the center are now complaining about the issue.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#14

Post by kurthr »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #7
verisimi wrote: post #2

"I do not think there is much evidence that misinformation has become more widespread, that this increase in misinformation is due to technological change, or that it is at the root of the political trends liberals are most angry about. If anything, people seem to be better-informed than in the past" I agree. Who has the truth? Government or media? Or neither? What has become worse is the centralised control of infor…

To be honest, in Italy this issue was solved during ww-2 time, a bunch of commercial newspapers from far-left to right (we couldn't have far-right back then, of course :D, we still can't but people has forgot and so we have now, but they can't really read and write), created a cooperative called ANSA ( https://www.ansa.it ), that is no opionion, no controlling point of view, just facts as they happen ( https://en.wik…

But Berlusconi's (finivest/mediaset) ownership of Il Giornale and 3 of 7 TV channels makes that all a little less relevant due to political manipulation, doesn't it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Silv...

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/016344370936116...

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#15

Post by unfocussed_mike »

Tycho wrote: post #3

“Misinformation” appears to be a term used by people who don’t want to take on the burden of proof when accusing someone of lying.

I think it is more useful to describe the situations where:

- accusing someone of lying has no restraining impact on the person or the lie, and indeed where it might have a magnifying effect

or

- the lie is being shared by someone who has been lied to and does not know it; they aren't a liar but they are misinformers.

Calling the "Covid hasn't even been isolated" misinformation a lie, for example, requires knowing that the teller is aware they are lying. They could simply be credulous.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#16

Post by BeefWellington »

gorwell wrote: post #10
Tycho wrote: post #3

“Misinformation” appears to be a term used by people who don’t want to take on the burden of proof when accusing someone of lying.

When you hear the word `misinformation`, you can generally substitute with `wrongthink`. It makes much more sense that way.

I dunno about that. Thought experiment:

The Earth is a flat disc.

Is this misinformation, wrongthink, or both?

To be sure it's a vague term applied quite continuously online but simply deflecting it as actually meaning "wrongthink" is disingenuous. There's a lot of misinformation being spread specifically about objective measurable facts. It is simultaneously true that a lot of opinions are being mislabeled as misinformation.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#17

Post by baronswindle »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #7
verisimi wrote: post #2

"I do not think there is much evidence that misinformation has become more widespread, that this increase in misinformation is due to technological change, or that it is at the root of the political trends liberals are most angry about. If anything, people seem to be better-informed than in the past" I agree. Who has the truth? Government or media? Or neither? What has become worse is the centralised control of infor…

To be honest, in Italy this issue was solved during ww-2 time, a bunch of commercial newspapers from far-left to right (we couldn't have far-right back then, of course :D, we still can't but people has forgot and so we have now, but they can't really read and write), created a cooperative called ANSA ( https://www.ansa.it ), that is no opionion, no controlling point of view, just facts as they happen ( https://en.wik…

We do have the Associated Press (AP), which seems similar to what you describe. That said, even such sources can be guilty of ideological bias if they choose to report certain facts and not others. In practice, I think AP is pretty even-handed, but I think that is as much a result of their editorial process as it is of their focus on factual reporting over opinion/analysis.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#18

Post by lnxg33k1 »

kurthr wrote: post #14
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, in Italy this issue was solved during ww-2 time, a bunch of commercial newspapers from far-left to right (we couldn't have far-right back then, of course :D, we still can't but people has forgot and so we have now, but they can't really read and write), created a cooperative called ANSA ( https://www.ansa.it ), that is no opionion, no controlling point of view, just facts as they happen ( https://en.wik…

But Berlusconi's (finivest/mediaset) ownership of Il Giornale and 3 of 7 TV channels makes that all a little less relevant due to political manipulation, doesn't it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Silv... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/016344370936116...

Yes and no, I would divide the news consumer between TV and written/paper/internet, Berlusconi is an issue because he controls a big chunk of TV easily accessible news content, but I am not sure how would you solve that, if a person wants to go to see news that match its point of view, then you can't force him not to, and if a TV has a lot of reality shows and entertainment and it mixes all of that with "news" program, then yeah he can kind of decide the weather, but yeah if you want un-opinionated news source you can at least have that, for what it's worth

But the scope of my reply was about "who owns the truth?" and yeah you need a place where people can go and check facts that are checked by peers of other point of view

I would tell you about my literature professor, he would walk around with multiple newspapers under his armpit and suggest that "If you want to try to get the truth you need to get the same fact from multiple point of view and try to get it in the middle"

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#19

Post by legitster »

The biggest change is how aware we are of others' views. The internet thrives on showing you people who are "wrong".

I wish we would do away with public opinion polling as news. It does nothing to actually inform or help people, but it makes us obsessed with culture wars.

Only 60 something percent of Americans believed the moon landings were real the year they happened. Imagine if someone flashed on the screen to tell you "40% of Americans don't believe this happened, and here are all of their political views". That's what modern journalism feels like.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#20

Post by sleepingadmin »

Misinformation is misinformation. I am certain I am misinformed about many things. The correct response to when I post misinformation is to inform.

What happened recently with the move to yellow journalism is not misinformation but rather censorship. Fact checkers end up labelling things in order to censor them.

The interesting thing on my mind in regards to Canada. Trudeau has changed. He would take on people head on at town halls and challenging questions: https://www.nbcnews.com/video/trudeau-takes-questions-about-...

Today he refuses to even consider talking to these ongoing protests and is going to insane extremes to shut these peaceful protests down. The only way to look at it from his point of view. He must see these people as national security threats. He genuinely believes they are racists and white supremacists. He genuinely believes they are there to overthrow the government.

Which there's no justification for other than egregiously being misinformed.

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