Live data from Hacker News

Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

aspistrategist.org.au

21–30 of 210 posts

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#21

One issue the article goes into is that the sailors were distracted by their high tech bridge computers and so failed to notice the ship they were in the process of ramming. I have trouble understanding how this works - what is your high tech bridge gear showing you if not the surrounding area? Someone should be checking where the ship is going and whether they check with their mark one eyeballs or their high tech sh…

>the sailors were distracted who was the captain? was a special crew?

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#22

This site has a great animation of the crash, including the leaked radio communications: https://www.vg.no/spesial/2018/helge-ingstad-ulykken/ Click "Helge Ingstad natt" to see the POV from the frigate. "Styrbord" means starboard/right, that's basically all the Norwegian you need to know.

Really cool, thanks. I’m actualy pretty surprised how much of the Norwegian language I could imply into English there. It wasn’t that hard to follow along on that map. Context matters a lot, I guess.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#23
post #10

Saying this has "far-reaching implications" sits with me as click bait.

This is a reference to the fact, stated in the article, that Australia, Germany, Spain, and the Netherlands have ships of a similar design built by the same shipbuilder, which may also suffer from design flaws that allowed this one to sink so readily.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#24

Older ship designs had a flying bridge, where one or more lookouts would be posted. Open to the air, with very little equipment to distract or lights to blind. In moby dick the standing order was: Keep your weather-eye open, and sing out every time. Sing out! sing out every time! These newer ships, esp the stealth ships seem to have dispensed with this feature. Perhaps navies have decided that the advantages of steal…

They might have paid one sailor for a lot of years for the cost of this sinking.

They had sailors on lookout duty. But apparently the lookouts didn't understand what they were seeing, or there was a breakdown in bridge resource management.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#25
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was also a few minutes after a shift change too.

This in itself is a red flag: you should not be changing the watch during transit of a heavy traffic area. You do that well before you get into the heavy traffic area, and you put your highest skilled watchstanders on the bridge, so they have both the experience to handle heavy traffic and the time to build proper situational awareness before the heavy traffic builds up.

This - my time as control room crew on a sub, we knew we were in for as long a maneuvering watch as we had to stand, to get from open water to a pier or vice versa.

Only in very unusual circumstances did the watchstanders rotate, with the exception of the helmsman and his relief.

Especially not Sonar, Fire Control, Radar and the Quaartermaster.

If that discipline has broken down, ah, crap, may as well leave em pierside, or you're just pushing around REALLY expensive bumper cars.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#27
Like people with a loaded gun, sailors and officiers of warships think they are invincible and anybody else has to avoid them and not vice versa. I guess the bleak reality after such incidents would give them a cold shower to wake up, but probably too late. All modern warships were designed as if they operate on open ocean only when in reality most of the time they must navigate in world where commercial shipping has grown more strongly than ever before. The most effective weapon for modern skirmishes seems to me simple but heavy built ships designed for ramming :D

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#28

One issue the article goes into is that the sailors were distracted by their high tech bridge computers and so failed to notice the ship they were in the process of ramming. I have trouble understanding how this works - what is your high tech bridge gear showing you if not the surrounding area? Someone should be checking where the ship is going and whether they check with their mark one eyeballs or their high tech sh…

Maybe the displays were displaying an unskippable ad?

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#29

Older ship designs had a flying bridge, where one or more lookouts would be posted. Open to the air, with very little equipment to distract or lights to blind. In moby dick the standing order was: Keep your weather-eye open, and sing out every time. Sing out! sing out every time! These newer ships, esp the stealth ships seem to have dispensed with this feature. Perhaps navies have decided that the advantages of steal…

Ha - nice Moby Dick reference! I would add Jack London's The Sea Wolf to that -- both for the collision aspect early in the book then life aboard the ship. Hell - add Dan Simmon's "The Terror" to that list too :)

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#30

One issue the article goes into is that the sailors were distracted by their high tech bridge computers and so failed to notice the ship they were in the process of ramming. I have trouble understanding how this works - what is your high tech bridge gear showing you if not the surrounding area? Someone should be checking where the ship is going and whether they check with their mark one eyeballs or their high tech sh…

The sacking of the US Pacific commander says a lot about the discipline and practice of military crewmen in modern armies nowadays, in a world of 50 years and more of enduring peace.
Post reply on HN