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Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

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11–20 of 210 posts

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#11
Older ship designs had a flying bridge, where one or more lookouts would be posted. Open to the air, with very little equipment to distract or lights to blind.

In moby dick the standing order was: Keep your weather-eye open, and sing out every time. Sing out! sing out every time!

These newer ships, esp the stealth ships seem to have dispensed with this feature. Perhaps navies have decided that the advantages of stealth and not having to stand in the cold damp all night are worth the cost of an occasional mishap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_bridge

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#13

This site has a great animation of the crash, including the leaked radio communications: https://www.vg.no/spesial/2018/helge-ingstad-ulykken/ Click "Helge Ingstad natt" to see the POV from the frigate. "Styrbord" means starboard/right, that's basically all the Norwegian you need to know.

This is really cool, thanks for sharing.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#14
post #10

Saying this has "far-reaching implications" sits with me as click bait.

They shouldn't have collided; they weren't paying attention.

They shouldn't have sunk; there wasn't that much damage but multiple critical structural systems failed which are present in many other ships from the same manufacturer.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#15
post #4

One issue the article goes into is that the sailors were distracted by their high tech bridge computers and so failed to notice the ship they were in the process of ramming. I have trouble understanding how this works - what is your high tech bridge gear showing you if not the surrounding area? Someone should be checking where the ship is going and whether they check with their mark one eyeballs or their high tech sh…

It may be a case of The Boy Who Cried Wolf, or more recently the Vista security alerts. People tune out warnings, or even disable them, if they are constant.

[deleted]

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#17
Google transnation:

Could "Sola TS" do more? "Sola TS" still had the tire lights when they drove out in the fjord, although ships should not light that obscures the visibility of the red and green lanterns.

"Helge Ingstad" had noticed the lights that were the tanker and had plans to take a boat and sail around (ie on the side towards the fjord, not on the side towards the country). 3:58 AM said, "The Sola TS" captain is about to make a 10-degree change of course towards the fjord. A little after four o'clock, after Helge Ingstad reported that they would not turn into land, "Sola TS" hit the full hill in the machine. They put the ship in reverse, while the warship came against them at the same high speed.

Why did they sail straight to the lights? A big question for the Havarikommission is what is why the KNM "Helge Ingstad" sails right towards the lights they think are part of the Sturerminal (but actually the tanker). No matter what the lights are, that's something they're on a collision course with.

The war ship first carries out a last minute kidney robbery.

- Why do not they turn away? No matter if they think it's a fixed object or a ship?

- That's what our survey will have to answer. We will look into how they used their technical aids aboard the frigate and how the cooperation was on the bridge, says Ytrehus in the Havarikommisjonen to VG.

Could the ship be saved? The frigate is built with a series of watertight bulkheads that will prevent the boat from sinking. But the accident commission has found two errors in the boat construction . During the crash the frigate got a big flange in the side. Water flowed into the room with the generators that make power to the vessel. And that would stop there. But instead, water flows through a hollow propeller shaft and into the girder room. This is the first mistake they have notified.

The damage About. 45 meters long cracked Adult man in scale Stock and cabins aft generator- room aft machine- room gear room fore machine- room The second mistake is that it does not stop there. Because when the girder room is also filled with water, the water moves on to the aft and the farther engine room.

When do we get a final answer ?: The Hearing Commission has one year to deliver its final report. The police investigate if there has been a criminal offense during the accident, but the investigation will take time. The Armed Forces have set up their own investigation commission, but even who is in the commission is secret .

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#18

One issue the article goes into is that the sailors were distracted by their high tech bridge computers and so failed to notice the ship they were in the process of ramming. I have trouble understanding how this works - what is your high tech bridge gear showing you if not the surrounding area? Someone should be checking where the ship is going and whether they check with their mark one eyeballs or their high tech sh…

I agree, the problem is not the high tech equipment but faulty watchstanding practice. Whoever is driving the ship should not be looking at the high tech gear, they should be looking where the ship is going. Other watchstanders can feed that person information from the high tech gear if needed.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#19
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a sailor, but I was struck when touring various mueseum ships, including ships in service into the late 70s. They were pretty barebones in terms of equipment, comfort and distraction. With the light distraction of screens, reliance on automated systems, reduced crew levels, and leadership focused on things other than sailing ships, it seems to be an argument that has some merit to me.

It was also a few minutes after a shift change too.

This in itself is a red flag: you should not be changing the watch during transit of a heavy traffic area. You do that well before you get into the heavy traffic area, and you put your highest skilled watchstanders on the bridge, so they have both the experience to handle heavy traffic and the time to build proper situational awareness before the heavy traffic builds up.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#20

Older ship designs had a flying bridge, where one or more lookouts would be posted. Open to the air, with very little equipment to distract or lights to blind. In moby dick the standing order was: Keep your weather-eye open, and sing out every time. Sing out! sing out every time! These newer ships, esp the stealth ships seem to have dispensed with this feature. Perhaps navies have decided that the advantages of steal…

They might have paid one sailor for a lot of years for the cost of this sinking.
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