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Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

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Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#21

Post by jacquesm »

roywiggins wrote: post #20
jacquesm wrote: post #10

Oh that's cool. Would be even cooler if he had embedded some obvious artificial artifact through steganography in the image. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography I've been messing with the system here by sanding off my prints before applying for a passport: https://jacquesmattheij.com/the-belt-sander-and-the-battle-f... That was a fun exercise but this guy takes it to the next level.

It would be quite difficult to find something that would both be invisible and survive the process of being printed out onto the card, especially as you'd only have one shot at getting it right!

Some code in freckles or length of beard hairs or something like that should do the trick.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#22

Post by wohlergehen »

ipsin wrote: post #5

Now we just need a scare story about how two similar-looking men could get a single passport using an "averaged digital composition". [To bypass a no-fly list, for example]

Of course this has already happened :)

https://youtu.be/dhM_2ubR9Aw?t=213

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#23

Post by roywiggins »

adrianmonk wrote: post #19

To me, this is really not that weird. Law enforcement can put up "wanted" posters based on an artist's sketch. So there is already a way that governments rely on a synthetic image for identification purposes. Of course that is only for preliminary identification, but then this is a more accurate representation than a sketch.

A photorealistic color painting might be just as good for identification purposes as a photograph, though it might be easier to tell it was done by hand. As long as it looks "like you" (according to other fallible humans!) then it does its job.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#24

Post by morganvachon »

jacquesm wrote: post #13
morganvachon wrote: post #2

This is a perfect example of the uncanny valley for anyone not familiar with the concept. It's just beyond the threshold enough to make the viewer feel as if something's off.

I can't tell. And I used to be pretty good at spotting fake stills but this is beyond my ability to discern, what specifically makes you feel 'something's off'?

The eyes look dead, the hair is obviously fake, and blur seems to be used to soften the wrong parts. It is very close though.

I showed it to my wife with no context, and she immediately asked if it was a still from a new video game.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#25

Post by roywiggins »

jacquesm wrote: post #21
roywiggins wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be quite difficult to find something that would both be invisible and survive the process of being printed out onto the card, especially as you'd only have one shot at getting it right!

Some code in freckles or length of beard hairs or something like that should do the trick.

EURion freckles would be a good prank :)

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#26

Post by rhblake »

In Sweden an artist painted a self-portrait, took a photo of it, and used that photo when renewing his driver's license. It was accepted. [0] The transport agency, when told about this afterwards, had no problem with it as it was -- in that small size anyway -- indistinguishable from a normal photo (but they discouraged others from trying the same). [1]

[0] https://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/konst-form/konstnar-har-sjalvp...

[1] https://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/konst-form/transportstyrelsen-...

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#27

Post by jacquesm »

roywiggins wrote: post #25
jacquesm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some code in freckles or length of beard hairs or something like that should do the trick.

EURion freckles would be a good prank :)

That's brilliant. Bonus points if it causes the workflow on the other side to totally stall because the ID card printer refuses to print the image.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#28

Post by Benjammer »

noonespecial wrote: post #12

To be fair, his "photo" looks a lot more like him than my passport photo looks like me. It was taken early in the morning with an ancient camera under fluorescent lights at a post office. I am tinted decidedly green and my eyes look half closed. I look more like an extra on The Walking Dead than an international traveler. He claims the photo is a "fiction". All photos are. The photo's job is to say that "the person i…

>He claims the photo is a "fiction". All photos are.

"Ceci n'est pas une pipe."

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#29

Post by jimmywanger »

jacquesm wrote: post #17
nine_k wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. Photo quality is low a anyway. What's important is a controlled process that attaches this photo to a hard-to-forge token, such as a passport or other identity document. It confirms that some designated clerk looked at the photo and at the person, and also at other documents confirming the identity of that person, and maybe asked questions to make sure the person is who (s)he alleges to be. That photo is f…

You're talking to the guy that pioneered digital photos used for identification purposes in 1985 (Goodsports, Alphabet BV, Amsterdam). I think I know a thing or two about the processes involved to get a pass on being allowed to use digital imagery as proof of identity, the one thing that everybody involved from the official side was quite clear on was that any kind of tampering with the image content was absolutely f…

There's de-facto and de-jure.

Any tampering is forbidden right? Even the transposition of a pixel is forbidden - it's technically illegal, but as long as it doesn't make a difference then I don't think anybody is going to care - so what if this pixel is cyan in this picture and turquoise in the other.

When things are really going to hit the fan is if you are able to have a digitally altered picture that passes the eye test for visual verification but is useless somehow for facial recognition algorithms (altered facial proportions, etc etc). That's a big if, because I don't know much about facial recognition technologies, I'd suspect they're born from machine learning technologies based for human curated results.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#30

Post by pikzen »

jacquesm wrote: post #17
nine_k wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. Photo quality is low a anyway. What's important is a controlled process that attaches this photo to a hard-to-forge token, such as a passport or other identity document. It confirms that some designated clerk looked at the photo and at the person, and also at other documents confirming the identity of that person, and maybe asked questions to make sure the person is who (s)he alleges to be. That photo is f…

You're talking to the guy that pioneered digital photos used for identification purposes in 1985 (Goodsports, Alphabet BV, Amsterdam). I think I know a thing or two about the processes involved to get a pass on being allowed to use digital imagery as proof of identity, the one thing that everybody involved from the official side was quite clear on was that any kind of tampering with the image content was absolutely f…

Nobody uses pictures for identification. Not alone. In combination with everything else, maybe, but being French, I can even assure you that in most of the cases, people don't even look at your photo when checking your ID. They're always outdated, took in a weird lightning, and with a terrible quality.

From an administration point of view, whether you took a picture of your face and mapped it onto a 3D model, or just gave them the original picture makes zero difference. Last time I renewed my card, I gave them four years old pictures, I looked totally different, and they do not give a damn.

Identification through only a picture was dumb in 1985, and still is.

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