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Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

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Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#11

Post by jacquesm »

andybak wrote: post #4

Hmmmm. Without knowing the details of how the image was created it's hard to say whether this is especially interesting or not. For example - why would a 3D model based on high-quality photogrammetry be any less "real" than a digital photograph. It's just a few more stages in a processing pipeline that starts with his real face. If however - there was no photographic source material - either for geometry or textures…

> For example - why would a 3D model based on high-quality photogrammetry be any less "real" than a digital photograph.

Because it isn't. It shows that you can get a digital ID based on the photograph of an entity that technically never existed, it's a texture map around human shaped blank, not a photograph of a human. You can bet that to the authorities this is a real problem.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#12

Post by noonespecial »

To be fair, his "photo" looks a lot more like him than my passport photo looks like me. It was taken early in the morning with an ancient camera under fluorescent lights at a post office. I am tinted decidedly green and my eyes look half closed. I look more like an extra on The Walking Dead than an international traveler.

He claims the photo is a "fiction". All photos are. The photo's job is to say that "the person identified by this card looks like this" to an official looking at that card. If he modeled his head well and chose good render settings, it might be truer than a "real photo" in this regard.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#13

Post by jacquesm »

morganvachon wrote: post #2

This is a perfect example of the uncanny valley for anyone not familiar with the concept. It's just beyond the threshold enough to make the viewer feel as if something's off.

I can't tell. And I used to be pretty good at spotting fake stills but this is beyond my ability to discern, what specifically makes you feel 'something's off'?

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#14

Post by nine_k »

jacquesm wrote: post #11
andybak wrote: post #4

Hmmmm. Without knowing the details of how the image was created it's hard to say whether this is especially interesting or not. For example - why would a 3D model based on high-quality photogrammetry be any less "real" than a digital photograph. It's just a few more stages in a processing pipeline that starts with his real face. If however - there was no photographic source material - either for geometry or textures…

> For example - why would a 3D model based on high-quality photogrammetry be any less "real" than a digital photograph. Because it isn't. It shows that you can get a digital ID based on the photograph of an entity that technically never existed, it's a texture map around human shaped blank, not a photograph of a human. You can bet that to the authorities this is a real problem.

It is not. Photo quality is low a anyway.

What's important is a controlled process that attaches this photo to a hard-to-forge token, such as a passport or other identity document. It confirms that some designated clerk looked at the photo and at the person, and also at other documents confirming the identity of that person, and maybe asked questions to make sure the person is who (s)he alleges to be.

That photo is for reference only, and is worth next to nothing without the identity verification process above.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#15

Post by jacquesm »

noonespecial wrote: post #12

To be fair, his "photo" looks a lot more like him than my passport photo looks like me. It was taken early in the morning with an ancient camera under fluorescent lights at a post office. I am tinted decidedly green and my eyes look half closed. I look more like an extra on The Walking Dead than an international traveler. He claims the photo is a "fiction". All photos are. The photo's job is to say that "the person i…

> He claims the photo is a "fiction". All photos are.

That's not true. Your passport photo is supposed to be a snapshot of what you looked like in person at a certain point in time. It is the difference between a registration and a creation.

The likely effect of actions like these is that eventually the passport office will take the photographs to avoid people playing games with the system (such as: replacing the eyes with the eyes of someone else or changing other details that might screw up the biometric passport requirements).

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#16

Post by nine_k »

ipsin wrote: post #5

Now we just need a scare story about how two similar-looking men could get a single passport using an "averaged digital composition". [To bypass a no-fly list, for example]

A friend of a friend told me about identical twins that sometimes swapped identities and documents, to circumvent some bureaucratic hurdles.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#17

Post by jacquesm »

nine_k wrote: post #14
jacquesm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example - why would a 3D model based on high-quality photogrammetry be any less "real" than a digital photograph. Because it isn't. It shows that you can get a digital ID based on the photograph of an entity that technically never existed, it's a texture map around human shaped blank, not a photograph of a human. You can bet that to the authorities this is a real problem.

It is not. Photo quality is low a anyway. What's important is a controlled process that attaches this photo to a hard-to-forge token, such as a passport or other identity document. It confirms that some designated clerk looked at the photo and at the person, and also at other documents confirming the identity of that person, and maybe asked questions to make sure the person is who (s)he alleges to be. That photo is f…

You're talking to the guy that pioneered digital photos used for identification purposes in 1985 (Goodsports, Alphabet BV, Amsterdam).

I think I know a thing or two about the processes involved to get a pass on being allowed to use digital imagery as proof of identity, the one thing that everybody involved from the official side was quite clear on was that any kind of tampering with the image content was absolutely forbidden.

So I would expect this piece of art to have some far reaching consequences.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#18

Post by pavel_lishin »

mtkd wrote: post #9
morganvachon wrote: post #2

This is a perfect example of the uncanny valley for anyone not familiar with the concept. It's just beyond the threshold enough to make the viewer feel as if something's off.

> as if something's off I suspect 2018 is the year that stops being an thing

I think it already has, if you're willing to put in the work and funding.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#19

Post by adrianmonk »

To me, this is really not that weird. Law enforcement can put up "wanted" posters based on an artist's sketch. So there is already a way that governments rely on a synthetic image for identification purposes.

Of course that is only for preliminary identification, but then this is a more accurate representation than a sketch.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#20

Post by roywiggins »

jacquesm wrote: post #10

Oh that's cool. Would be even cooler if he had embedded some obvious artificial artifact through steganography in the image. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography I've been messing with the system here by sanding off my prints before applying for a passport: https://jacquesmattheij.com/the-belt-sander-and-the-battle-f... That was a fun exercise but this guy takes it to the next level.

It would be quite difficult to find something that would both be invisible and survive the process of being printed out onto the card, especially as you'd only have one shot at getting it right!
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