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Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

thenational.scot

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Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#21

Post by buttcoin »

eternalban wrote: post #6
mwti wrote: post #2

Can’t we all just admit that Snowden is a limited hangout who’s sole purpose is to benefit the establishment and NSA? The forms of spying he discusses are trivial at best (backdoors in COTS technologies) without peep said about real advances in espionage. I want to hear about how TEMPEST-based projects are so good they can passively grab memory (and encryption keys) from miles away over the air, if that machine uses…

But Washington Post says he is for real. So does the Guardian. And he is telling us which programs to use and which crypto is or isn't broken.

I love that he went from being a network admin to the savior of the internet. At what point in his career did he have perfect visibility into every topic he's quoted on. He wasn't even a part of the groups he tried to out (TAO). My guess is he was genuine in his curiosity, something happened that frustrated him (maybe he was worried about being let go from yet another contracted position, maybe he was denied on his application to join the Remote Operations Team in TAO for the third time due to lack of technical acumen and personality conflicts.....). My guess is through Greenwald and Co, he was sold a narrative to drive him to collecting data they otherwise wouldn't have had (he himself was socially engineered). It's amazing how much money they've made off the leaks and yet that topic hasn't really come up at all. Everyone has a motive, many have multiple.

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#22

Post by buttcoin »

lqdc13 wrote: post #19
buttcoin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would they? Acknowledging attacks could give clue to operations in play. They're certainly not going to risk sources and or collection that's proven valuable. And to be fair there have been a good amount of publicly acknowledged plot disruptions. http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/09/05/german-police-arrest... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsuccessful_terrorist...

Except for this German one, I haven't found another story on that Wiki page that wasn't clearly some other source.

Except you can't prove that. Are they going to directly say, Satelite XYZ in geostationary orbit was monitoring data link 111322, during which we captured intelligence on platform 2342342 which resulted in a lead then passed on to domestic intelligence agencies. Nope, not going to happen. Everyone here likes to talk about the government and their parallel construction when it supports a negative notion, yet forget that it's also a legitimate tool to protect origination sources.

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#23

Post by spangry »

hackenthorpe wrote: post #11
dasunbekannte wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you tear down the FVEY agencies. Enemy nations can then go rampant. If we collect, then it's obvious they must as well and they have less laws than we do limiting what we can do. Having been on both sides, it is difficult to see the good they are doing, because they are shrouded in secrecy due to necessity.

Indeed. It's true to say that there would have been a lot more terrorist attacks, and more serious organised crime, were our security services not using the bulk surveillance data sets for their analyses. Of course, none of the details can be revealed for operational reasons, so the more paranoid fill in the blanks with 1984-style dystopian fantasy. It's unfortunate, as they really are doing good work.

Yes I too agree with what these two green, totally-not-sock-puppet accounts are saying.

All hail General Krupp.

-Signed, Little Girl

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#24

Post by hobs »

buttcoin wrote: post #22
lqdc13 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for this German one, I haven't found another story on that Wiki page that wasn't clearly some other source.

Except you can't prove that. Are they going to directly say, Satelite XYZ in geostationary orbit was monitoring data link 111322, during which we captured intelligence on platform 2342342 which resulted in a lead then passed on to domestic intelligence agencies. Nope, not going to happen. Everyone here likes to talk about the government and their parallel construction when it supports a negative notion, yet forget th…

There is no need to prove someone's claim false, they must prove it true.

eg: Except that the government has claimed that they have foiled attacks and those claims have been shown to be bullshit.

So, given that they have made these claims and they are false, what conclusions should we draw?

A. The government gave us false information to reassure us that their blanket information gathering programs work, they cant tell us operational details or made some other mistake(even though operation details of various programs leak like a sieve.)

B. Their argument is specious, and someone made a list to prop up a program they do not have evidence for.

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#25

Post by dasunbekannte »

spangry wrote: post #23
hackenthorpe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. It's true to say that there would have been a lot more terrorist attacks, and more serious organised crime, were our security services not using the bulk surveillance data sets for their analyses. Of course, none of the details can be revealed for operational reasons, so the more paranoid fill in the blanks with 1984-style dystopian fantasy. It's unfortunate, as they really are doing good work.

Yes I too agree with what these two green, totally-not-sock-puppet accounts are saying. All hail General Krupp. -Signed, Little Girl

I can only speak from the POV of my country (left unnamed), but I encourage anyone wanting truly interesting work to apply to your country's SIGINT agency. Only there will you find real answers.

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#26

Post by rl3 »

>... and more serious organised crime, were our security services not using the bulk surveillance data ...

In the unlikely case these aren't pranks, they would almost certainly be GCHQ astroturfing accounts. Of course, the astroturfing itself is of so poor quality that they probably outsourced the job to either some apathetic social media/perception management firm, or clueless interns.

I could easily see a social engagement platform that's primarily used to spam Disqus comment sections also having support for HN, just for the sake of ticking the box.

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#27

Post by pjc50 »

dasunbekannte wrote: post #25
spangry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I too agree with what these two green, totally-not-sock-puppet accounts are saying. All hail General Krupp. -Signed, Little Girl

I can only speak from the POV of my country (left unnamed), but I encourage anyone wanting truly interesting work to apply to your country's SIGINT agency. Only there will you find real answers.

Only there will you find real answers

.. which it's illegal to tell anyone else. And if you find evidence of abuse the only way you can do anything about it is to flee to a country from which you can't be extradited.

This is why we can't have a discussion about this and as much as possible needs to be moved from "intelligence" (secret, unaccountable) to "evidence" in courts.

The only sensible answer to "how many terrorist plots have been prevented" should be a count of convictions.

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#29

Post by gaius »

dasunbekannte wrote: post #10
liquidise wrote: post #8

Metadata includes who a surveillance target is calling, emailing, what websites they visit, and, when location data is available, a person’s movements. That an impressive definition of "metadata". To the defenders of these efforts i continue to point to the common trend among these agencies: expansion. First the definition of terrorist expanded without merit. Then the application of spy tracking data expanded similar…

Let's say you tear down the FVEY agencies. Enemy nations can then go rampant. If we collect, then it's obvious they must as well and they have less laws than we do limiting what we can do. Having been on both sides, it is difficult to see the good they are doing, because they are shrouded in secrecy due to necessity.

Enemy nations can then go rampant.

Let them. I've never been to I dunno, North Korea, I have no plans to go there, let them know whatever they like about me. It's a problem however when a government that DOES have some say over my life does it.

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#30

Post by astronautjones »

pastProlog wrote: post #17
dasunbekannte wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you tear down the FVEY agencies. Enemy nations can then go rampant. If we collect, then it's obvious they must as well and they have less laws than we do limiting what we can do. Having been on both sides, it is difficult to see the good they are doing, because they are shrouded in secrecy due to necessity.

The US did shut down its WWI-era spying in 1929. The (Republican!) Secretary State did so with the simple comment "Gentlemen do not read each other's mail". > Enemy nations can then go rampant The main enemy of the FVEY agencies has always been the population of the FVEY countries. This goes back a long time - in the era that US Republicans actually did believe in smaller government and Stimson was shutting down the…

Great comment. Can you recommend any further reading?
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