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Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

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Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#11

Post by hackenthorpe »

dasunbekannte wrote: post #10
liquidise wrote: post #8

Metadata includes who a surveillance target is calling, emailing, what websites they visit, and, when location data is available, a person’s movements. That an impressive definition of "metadata". To the defenders of these efforts i continue to point to the common trend among these agencies: expansion. First the definition of terrorist expanded without merit. Then the application of spy tracking data expanded similar…

Let's say you tear down the FVEY agencies. Enemy nations can then go rampant. If we collect, then it's obvious they must as well and they have less laws than we do limiting what we can do. Having been on both sides, it is difficult to see the good they are doing, because they are shrouded in secrecy due to necessity.

Indeed. It's true to say that there would have been a lot more terrorist attacks, and more serious organised crime, were our security services not using the bulk surveillance data sets for their analyses.

Of course, none of the details can be revealed for operational reasons, so the more paranoid fill in the blanks with 1984-style dystopian fantasy. It's unfortunate, as they really are doing good work.

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#12

Post by tr1ck5t3r »

If you want to know why Snowden exists, consider what Zimbardo explains here. https://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_...

Snowden is a global pys ops designed to shape human behaviour on a global scale.

Considering how many websites exist, just visiting a few websites regularly is enough to identify who you are.

Its all in the patterns.

If you cant stay off line, then at least stick with using the most popular devices, and only visit the most popular websites from public or work places in a futile attempt to blend in with the crowd.

So the application of specialist knowledge like using the Linux distro Tails to supposedly cover your tracks using Tor is enough to highlight you when considering how many people know about the existence of Tails, how many in your area even if your ISP fudges your location, and the time of day regularly visiting your favourite websites, especially when considering how many are online compared to those doing other tasks like being at (shift) work, watching TV or simply out and about. You can soon whittle the numbers down to id the individual.

You can even tell if someone is using a 32bit version of an OS which comes in 32bit and 64bit flavours because 32bit OS's always run faster as there are less addresses and pointers available in 32bit compared to 64bit.

You can even work out the type of processor in the device by the speed some things occur online, when considering the instructions sets that exist in cpu's and those that have to be emulated by code.

If you use a PC with UEFI bios, your bios is the backdoor into your system as its just a cut down posix system which allows remote access along with Intel Wake on Lan and everything they have developed like out of band support ie Intel AMT/vPro.

FreeBSD as another example has some "bugs" which allow you to bypass any block rules you might setup in PF as one example. So you can forget using things like PFsense.

Very few people in the world have found the hidden partition which exists in Windows 7 which is activated by a switch in your PC bios reporting everything you click and type back to Amazon cloud servers to cover the hackers aka spooks trails.

Spooks have been spying since the earliest telephone exchanges existed which required calling the operator to be put through to someone. The operators were typically women and as we see today with MI5 recruiting women because women are the best liars/fakers as they dont have the physical attributes namely strength to otherwise get themselves out of a tricky situation http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2980933/The-s-Bond-J...

Even your medical records, your finance details, school reports are used to psychologically profile you automatically with big data, so coupled with your parents behaviours and their genes passed onto you, effectively your card will be marked as soon as you are born whether you like it or not! Theres your Minority Report pre-cog.

Most people dont have a clue how big brother it is today, even encryption can be used against you if you trust a certificate authority to issue your certs considering how they have been hacked and no company has to admit they have been hacked to their users. Are you even competent enough to understand the code in your opensource distro to spot the bugs?

If you trust the HW companies who built the components in your devices, more fool you. Govts and big business have been in cahoots well before WW2, although WW2 history shows how some big businesses played both sides.

And if you believe the spooks dont break the law, think again. They will break into your property if they want to, if you are in the UK, they will even use your NHS treatments to dispose of you if need be.

When you are the law, you can do what the fuck you like, even the supposed free press in the UK is actually licenced and you will find useful puppets who will do anything for money or status where ever you look, although blackmail is the most common tactic against individuals including journalists.

Just look at whistleblowers and how they become ostracised. Manipulating people when you have the unlimited resources to print your own cash is very very easy, and the ultimate tool is money, which is why the Bankers were bailed out in 2008.

Today AI's like Hey Google, Siri and others are always listening and recording with your personal reporting device aka your mobile phone.

Is Google a manhatten project for the 21st century?

Manhatten projects are always top secret.

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#13

Post by duncanawoods »

Velox wrote: post #9

One of the more concerning matters on this is that the BBC, for some reason, are choosing not to report on this at all. Gone are the days when the BBC were the most trusted and reputable news source. http://www.bbc.com/news/scotland

Meh. Its not clear to me this is news - its secondary reporting about an Intercept article that doesn't appear on the intercept front page nor on any other Scottish newspaper.

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#14

Post by lqdc13 »

hackenthorpe wrote: post #11
dasunbekannte wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you tear down the FVEY agencies. Enemy nations can then go rampant. If we collect, then it's obvious they must as well and they have less laws than we do limiting what we can do. Having been on both sides, it is difficult to see the good they are doing, because they are shrouded in secrecy due to necessity.

Indeed. It's true to say that there would have been a lot more terrorist attacks, and more serious organised crime, were our security services not using the bulk surveillance data sets for their analyses. Of course, none of the details can be revealed for operational reasons, so the more paranoid fill in the blanks with 1984-style dystopian fantasy. It's unfortunate, as they really are doing good work.

"It's true to say that there would have been a lot more terrorist attacks"

Why is it true to say? I doubt there would have been more terrorist attacks. They definitely would have mentioned at least one such planned attack that was stopped as it is in their best interest to change public perception.

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17/u-s-mass-surveillance-ha...

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#15

Post by buttcoin »

hackenthorpe wrote: post #11
dasunbekannte wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you tear down the FVEY agencies. Enemy nations can then go rampant. If we collect, then it's obvious they must as well and they have less laws than we do limiting what we can do. Having been on both sides, it is difficult to see the good they are doing, because they are shrouded in secrecy due to necessity.

Indeed. It's true to say that there would have been a lot more terrorist attacks, and more serious organised crime, were our security services not using the bulk surveillance data sets for their analyses. Of course, none of the details can be revealed for operational reasons, so the more paranoid fill in the blanks with 1984-style dystopian fantasy. It's unfortunate, as they really are doing good work.

Even beyond that, the fact that we are discussing courts and legal limitations, though they aren't perfect, is an example of the systems in place trying to work. One only has to look at law from any other angle to see that nothing is cut and dry regardless of the topic.

I too have worked on both sides of the game and the irony is that outside of the government it's far easier for me to get raw collection simply by buying a feed from one of the provider(s).

I've taken data from marketing firms that have extensive details on users that have been linked and culled from a myriad of databases sold by the big brokerage firms like Experian. There is far less governance when profitability is involved.

I only hope that in 75 years 1/10th of the work done is shared. Not everyone in the government is evil despite what people project.

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#16

Post by buttcoin »

lqdc13 wrote: post #14
hackenthorpe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. It's true to say that there would have been a lot more terrorist attacks, and more serious organised crime, were our security services not using the bulk surveillance data sets for their analyses. Of course, none of the details can be revealed for operational reasons, so the more paranoid fill in the blanks with 1984-style dystopian fantasy. It's unfortunate, as they really are doing good work.

"It's true to say that there would have been a lot more terrorist attacks" Why is it true to say? I doubt there would have been more terrorist attacks. They definitely would have mentioned at least one such planned attack that was stopped as it is in their best interest to change public perception. https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17/u-s-mass-surveillance-ha...

Would they? Acknowledging attacks could give clue to operations in play. They're certainly not going to risk sources and or collection that's proven valuable. And to be fair there have been a good amount of publicly acknowledged plot disruptions.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/09/05/german-police-arrest...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsuccessful_terrorist...

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#17

Post by pastProlog »

dasunbekannte wrote: post #10
liquidise wrote: post #8

Metadata includes who a surveillance target is calling, emailing, what websites they visit, and, when location data is available, a person’s movements. That an impressive definition of "metadata". To the defenders of these efforts i continue to point to the common trend among these agencies: expansion. First the definition of terrorist expanded without merit. Then the application of spy tracking data expanded similar…

Let's say you tear down the FVEY agencies. Enemy nations can then go rampant. If we collect, then it's obvious they must as well and they have less laws than we do limiting what we can do. Having been on both sides, it is difficult to see the good they are doing, because they are shrouded in secrecy due to necessity.

The US did shut down its WWI-era spying in 1929. The (Republican!) Secretary State did so with the simple comment "Gentlemen do not read each other's mail".

> Enemy nations can then go rampant

The main enemy of the FVEY agencies has always been the population of the FVEY countries. This goes back a long time - in the era that US Republicans actually did believe in smaller government and Stimson was shutting down the Black Chamber, British intelligence was manufacturing the Zinoviev letter to bring down the Labour government in 1924. Peter Wright discussed more modern efforts by MI5 against the Labour party in Spycatcher, especially in the 1970s, and this has been discussed in other sources.

Similar machinations were happening in the USA in the 1970s, with Nixon using ex-CIA operatives to, among other things, break in to the national Democratic campaign headquarters in order to rig the election his way. That's against the background of COINTELPRO, spying on blacks seeking their civil right to vote and such, or that part of the electorate that wanted to withdraw from a war in Vietnam that the top brass and chiefs were privately saying was a lost cause. FVEY intelligence also helped bring down Gough Whitlam's Australian Labour government in the 1970's, an American, Christopher Boyce went to jail for, among other things, revealing this news to the Russians.

Insofar as enemy nations, England has had a litany of enemy nations in the 20th century - Indians who wanted independence, Argentinians who wanted the Malvinas returned, Irish who wanted English troops out of Ireland and on and on - think of John Cleese in the Meaning of Life waning on about efforts to "keep China British!"

US intelligence caused Daoud Khan to turn his back on the Soviets who had helped propel him to power, and when the Russians backed another horse and their former friend was ousted, the US said the "enemy nation" of Saur Afghanistan with Soviet backing was "going rampant", so the US helped launched a mujahideen-led jihad against secularizing Afghanistan, financing and arming Osama bin Laden and other proto-Al Qaeda and Taliban forces. Then years later the US decided to plant military bases in Saudi Arabia, causing this Arab nationalist to send his fighters with planes into the Pentagon.

Now we're told we need we need to work and be taxed to finance these FVEY agencies to protect us from these dangers which they themselves created. Whereas the real enemy they are fighting against is their own populations - as MacDonald, McGovern and Whitlam could all attest to.

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#18

Post by badsock »

hackenthorpe wrote: post #11
dasunbekannte wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you tear down the FVEY agencies. Enemy nations can then go rampant. If we collect, then it's obvious they must as well and they have less laws than we do limiting what we can do. Having been on both sides, it is difficult to see the good they are doing, because they are shrouded in secrecy due to necessity.

Indeed. It's true to say that there would have been a lot more terrorist attacks, and more serious organised crime, were our security services not using the bulk surveillance data sets for their analyses. Of course, none of the details can be revealed for operational reasons, so the more paranoid fill in the blanks with 1984-style dystopian fantasy. It's unfortunate, as they really are doing good work.

I understand that details can't be released, but is there any evidence at all for what you claim in your first paragraph?

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#19

Post by lqdc13 »

buttcoin wrote: post #16
lqdc13 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's true to say that there would have been a lot more terrorist attacks" Why is it true to say? I doubt there would have been more terrorist attacks. They definitely would have mentioned at least one such planned attack that was stopped as it is in their best interest to change public perception. https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17/u-s-mass-surveillance-ha...

Would they? Acknowledging attacks could give clue to operations in play. They're certainly not going to risk sources and or collection that's proven valuable. And to be fair there have been a good amount of publicly acknowledged plot disruptions. http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/09/05/german-police-arrest... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsuccessful_terrorist...

Except for this German one, I haven't found another story on that Wiki page that wasn't clearly some other source.

Re: Snowden reveals GCHQ spy programme with link to Scottish police

#20

Post by AngrySkillzz »

hackenthorpe wrote: post #11
dasunbekannte wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you tear down the FVEY agencies. Enemy nations can then go rampant. If we collect, then it's obvious they must as well and they have less laws than we do limiting what we can do. Having been on both sides, it is difficult to see the good they are doing, because they are shrouded in secrecy due to necessity.

Indeed. It's true to say that there would have been a lot more terrorist attacks, and more serious organised crime, were our security services not using the bulk surveillance data sets for their analyses. Of course, none of the details can be revealed for operational reasons, so the more paranoid fill in the blanks with 1984-style dystopian fantasy. It's unfortunate, as they really are doing good work.

According to you two random greens.
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