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Suicidal Software Developer

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Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#191

Post by elwell »

igravious wrote: post #182
elwell wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that I have a friend who was brought out of many years suicidal depression by his faith in God. I say that simply to add balance to our anecdotal judgments upon religion, albeit he isn't part of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

1) The person above never claimed above that losing their faith directly caused their suicidal depression. As such your anecdote does not balance out any judgment about religion I have. 2) I am already ideologically committed to being ill-disposed towards the concept of religion and, honestly, your single datum won't change that. 3) Are you claiming that your friend found God (they had no faith faith before) and this…

3) The friend I am thinking of was always religious.

4) I don't claim to prove anything; I was adding to our anecdotal evidences.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#192

Post by gobots »

gress wrote: post #188
gobots wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What proof do any of these religions have?

Proof of what?

Sorry I misread your comment earlier in the tone that you were attempting to get an atheist to consider other religions.

I believe there is a difference in the aspects of religion I am interested in from what you are describing. I simply am not interested in making a study of the worlds various minor religions, and I know a great deal about the major ones already. I am more interested in the psychological damage that is done to people by fundamentalist religion and the negative impact it has on their lives.

I'm not sure why you are pushing other Eastern religions though – I'm aware of many of these teachings, it's just not my primary focus.

As for personal beliefs and what not – I don't care to learn how "god is in me" or "around me". The esoteric nature of religion is bothersome as are the delusional lies of the people who founded them.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#193

Post by gobots »

gress wrote: post #189
gobots wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religion is the prefect template for corruption. Anywhere from hundreds to millions of devout worshipers who believe the unfounded teachings of a human (either in book form or spoken word) and are typically willing to die for those beliefs has all the makings of disaster. And I agree, this applies to governments and corporations as well. Pretty much anything that exploits an ideal. (edited this thought a bit)

What proof do you have that religion is the template, and not just suffering from a problem that affects to all large hierarchies?

Just to clarify – religion is a template, not THE template.

The only proof I need is the proof of my own life experiences and the lives I've seen destroyed religion.

See my other comment here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7912955

And then take a look at these reddit communities:

http://www.reddit.com/r/exjw http://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon http://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim http://www.reddit.com/r/moonies http://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai

As I stated above, I recently read How Religion Poisons Everything as well. No idea if you've read this book yourself, but it has some very compelling arguments as to the evil nature contained within religion.

Putting faith and believing in the creative works of human beings, using those beliefs to start wars, shun homosexuals, commit acts of horror and atrocity.

And this doesn't just come from "large hierarchies". Have you considered the religious suicide cults of the world? Even on a small scale, group think through the template of religion can be very deadly.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#194

Post by gobots »

mreiland wrote: post #185
gobots wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I understand what you are saying. The problem is that, I truly don't believe in gods or spirits anymore. Without gods and spirits, what is the point of religion? I consider myself to be a secular humanist. How Religion Poisons Everything is "slanted" in a way to be sure, but I actually agree with the arguments presented in the book. What do I stand to gain from studying other religions closely?

His reply was in the context of you labeling yourself an atheist. Perhaps you should avoid that term in the future.

I'm sorry, what? I should avoid labeling myself as an atheist... when I'm an atheist? Why?

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#195

Post by gobots »

micah63 wrote: post #124
gobots wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I understand what you are saying. The problem is that, I truly don't believe in gods or spirits anymore. Without gods and spirits, what is the point of religion? I consider myself to be a secular humanist. How Religion Poisons Everything is "slanted" in a way to be sure, but I actually agree with the arguments presented in the book. What do I stand to gain from studying other religions closely?

I think your definition of religion (spirit beings) is limiting. The study of religion and philosophy can lead to a lot of interesting thoughts about purpose, meaning and morality. Those topics are usually interesting to everyone. Maybe add Ravi Zacharias to your list and CS Lewis has a lot of interesting stuff on this topic as well.

My definition of religion isn't "spirit beings". My definition of religion is more along the lines of: A crutch for the weak, a tool for manipulation, an excuse for the lazy, and a template of evil for the manipulators.

Edit: I don't believe for one second that morality springs from religion. We have morality in spite of religion.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#196

Post by gobots »

JonnieCache wrote: post #158
gobots wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I understand what you are saying. The problem is that, I truly don't believe in gods or spirits anymore. Without gods and spirits, what is the point of religion? I consider myself to be a secular humanist. How Religion Poisons Everything is "slanted" in a way to be sure, but I actually agree with the arguments presented in the book. What do I stand to gain from studying other religions closely?

An understanding of the planet's various cultures and particularly their art. The history of human self-expression is bound up with religion, for various interesting reasons.

I think there is a misconception in this thread that I am arguing against the study of religion, but I'm not. I understand the value in comparative religion classes in terms of enriching one's understanding of history and human culture.

I personally have no use for this in my current course. I am interested in the harmful aspects of religion.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#197

Post by gobots »

ericcope wrote: post #122
gobots wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I understand what you are saying. The problem is that, I truly don't believe in gods or spirits anymore. Without gods and spirits, what is the point of religion? I consider myself to be a secular humanist. How Religion Poisons Everything is "slanted" in a way to be sure, but I actually agree with the arguments presented in the book. What do I stand to gain from studying other religions closely?

Perspectives give insight into the "whys". You may not agree with the perscription, but understanding the diagnosis can be very enlightening. (For the record, I'm non-committal in either direction, atheism or otherwise).

And the "whys" will be answered by religion? I find that science does a better job of that. I'm infinitely more interested in physics and cosmology. As I have stated in other replies, I'm more interested in the negative aspects of religion.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#198

Post by JonnieCache »

gobots wrote: post #196
JonnieCache wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An understanding of the planet's various cultures and particularly their art. The history of human self-expression is bound up with religion, for various interesting reasons.

I think there is a misconception in this thread that I am arguing against the study of religion, but I'm not. I understand the value in comparative religion classes in terms of enriching one's understanding of history and human culture. I personally have no use for this in my current course. I am interested in the harmful aspects of religion.

Yeah I kinda thought that after I wrote my reply. I'm sure you're quite familiar enough with the sociocultural aspects of religion at this point.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#199

Post by DanBC »

gobots wrote: post #196
JonnieCache wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An understanding of the planet's various cultures and particularly their art. The history of human self-expression is bound up with religion, for various interesting reasons.

I think there is a misconception in this thread that I am arguing against the study of religion, but I'm not. I understand the value in comparative religion classes in terms of enriching one's understanding of history and human culture. I personally have no use for this in my current course. I am interested in the harmful aspects of religion.

You said that you are learning about religion.

People thought you were learning about religion.

Those people would have understood your point if you had said that you are learning about atheism.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#200

Post by gobots »

Udo wrote: post #170
gobots wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet and some really shitty people that I worked with a while back saved me. Here's a bit of backstory. I believed 100% that I would never get old or die because Armageddon would come before then, the Earth would be restored to a paradise and sickness / death would be wiped out for good. I started preaching from door to door at age 5 and was baptized at age 11. My parents have been in since 8 years old, and t…

I'm just commenting to say that this is a very deeply inspiring story, thanks for sharing your experience. I too had assumed that religious fundamentalists are mostly immune to facts and essentially get a mental root kit installed which is unbreakable. Hearing that you managed to break out of this (all by yourself no less) makes me a bit more hopeful for our species' future. Again, thank you for that.

Thanks, but I'm way less hopeful now. When I utter the "atheist" word it seems I am actually handing people an exclusive ticket to explain to me why I'm wrong. Explaining non-belief is harder than explaining belief.

I'm less hopeful because it seems that the general population is much stupider than I had anticipated.

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