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Suicidal Software Developer

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Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#181
post #56

It might sound outrageous, but you're in a good spot in life right now. I've been there a couple of times, I've even had a suicide attempt at 17 and ended up spending 2 months in the hospital with kidney failure. But each time depression crept it on me again, I was better and better equipped to deal with it. The last time I was depressed towards suicidal (about 2 years ago), two things helped me: This book: http://ww…

> That's how the hit of LSD or psilocybin (mushrooms) might help, but you need to know what and how you're doing it. I figured out your LSD therapy was a form of self-help, but as someone who is under constant, long-term care of a psychiatrist, I have been told more than once that in the case of depression drugs and habitual alcohol intake are a no-go. LSD is especially dangerous. Please don't advise suicidal and men…

Your psychiatrist might be uninformed or maybe what he means is not to indulge in drugs as a way to escape reality (which I agree with).

Psychedelics, when taken in a safe setting and with the right goals (eg. as a therapy aid, not recreationally) can be extremely efficient for treating depression and all sorts of emotional issues.

There's a lot of literature and articles on the subject, for instance: http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/03/12/using-psilocybin-mag...

As as a side note, consider that psychiatrists are not gods and they know what they learned. In fact, I bet it would be detrimental for the whole industry if you could treat your mental issues in one or two settings and not use expensive psychiatric drugs for years.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#182
post #173
post #11

I had struggled with untreated suicidal depression for 15 years. I was very quiet about it. I am a web developer. Three years ago I was divorced from my wife, left my birth religion and quit my job. On top of all my issues I was suffering from burnout – I hadn't had a vacation in years. Since I was the religious guy at my job I worked the holidays and was promised make up time. Company policy shifted at some point an…

It's worth noting that I have a friend who was brought out of many years suicidal depression by his faith in God. I say that simply to add balance to our anecdotal judgments upon religion, albeit he isn't part of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

1) The person above never claimed above that losing their faith directly caused their suicidal depression. As such your anecdote does not balance out any judgment about religion I have.

2) I am already ideologically committed to being ill-disposed towards the concept of religion and, honestly, your single datum won't change that.

3) Are you claiming that your friend found God (they had no faith faith before) and this was directly instrumental to their suicidal depression lifting? Or was your friend always religious?

4) If God exists why should belief in that existence have an effect on suicidal ideation and major depressive episodes? What I'm saying is, how do you imagine these two things are connected?

5) Is it not possible that the two events occurred at around about the same time? That is to say, and I swear I've never used this before: correlation does not equal causation.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#183
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that I have a friend who was brought out of many years suicidal depression by his faith in God. I say that simply to add balance to our anecdotal judgments upon religion, albeit he isn't part of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

1) The person above never claimed above that losing their faith directly caused their suicidal depression. As such your anecdote does not balance out any judgment about religion I have. 2) I am already ideologically committed to being ill-disposed towards the concept of religion and, honestly, your single datum won't change that. 3) Are you claiming that your friend found God (they had no faith faith before) and this…

To answer 4:

Human beings perceive things through emotion, so anything that cause a perspective shift that enables them to deal with their emotions/the situation in a more positive manner helps them cope, be that getting religion, losing religion, or some other circumstance in their life.

Also, you're an asshole for using this thread to start pushing an agenda.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#184
post #63

Hey there, if you're listening! I actually dealt with something similar almost a decade ago. I never considered suicide, but during a snowy winter where I also experienced financial pressure and a lot of family strain and changes, I very slowly slipped into a sort of "fog." I also became very sensitive, both to how people interacted with me, but even to physical things. I remember bumping my shoulder into a door one…

> Life is short and it is amazing.

I'm sure you mean well. But if there's a more efficient way to alienate someone than presenting the direct opposite of their experience as if it were some great objective Truth, I can't imagine what it is.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#185
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still learning about religion from people who want to remove religion. It's akin to trying to understand homosexuality by asking Bryan Fischer. It's fine to educate yourself on their viewpoints and even to agree with them, but don't pretend that you're learning anything about religion. You're learning about atheism. I'd recommend checking out Karen Armstrong, Joseph Campbell, or Stephen Prothero, off the top of…

Ah, I understand what you are saying. The problem is that, I truly don't believe in gods or spirits anymore. Without gods and spirits, what is the point of religion? I consider myself to be a secular humanist. How Religion Poisons Everything is "slanted" in a way to be sure, but I actually agree with the arguments presented in the book. What do I stand to gain from studying other religions closely?

His reply was in the context of you labeling yourself an atheist. Perhaps you should avoid that term in the future.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#186
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ah, I understand what you are saying. No, I don't think you do. > The problem is that, I truly don't believe in gods or spirits anymore. Neither do I. I don't see how that's relevant to learning the subject matter that you're claiming to learn. You don't read a book about Java and say that you now understand Haskell. You don't read a book about real-time embedded systems and come away with an understanding of CSS.…

God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything and the God Delusion are books about religion. I mentioned a few authors that I have read whose books cover either science, religion or a mixture of the two. I will grant you that I am not making a hard study into comparative religion and certainly did not mean to imply otherwise.

You're missing Saraid's point.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#187
post #144
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you said this – I recently had the same thought. Jesus seems more like a humanist than a religious zealot. I would not be shocked to learn some day that the claims of being god, or god's son were later additions to his teachings.

You seem to have a specific view of what it means to be 'god', or the 'son of god', and are judging all religion through this lens. The Quakers, for example hold that 'there is that of god in everyone' Many forms of tantric Hinduism hold that the ultimate state of being is realizing one's unity with god. The Sufi's (and some parts of non fundamentalist Islam) claim that one's experience of god is personal and cannot…

"The Quakers, for example hold that 'there is that of god in everyone'"

All that groks is god.

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#188
post #147
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have a specific view of what it means to be 'god', or the 'son of god', and are judging all religion through this lens. The Quakers, for example hold that 'there is that of god in everyone' Many forms of tantric Hinduism hold that the ultimate state of being is realizing one's unity with god. The Sufi's (and some parts of non fundamentalist Islam) claim that one's experience of god is personal and cannot…

What proof do any of these religions have?

Proof of what?

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#189
post #140
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are robbed of time, money, creativity, and hope, by many powerful institutions, for example governments and corporations. There is nothing at all obvious about the claim that this is an evil caused by religion, rather than a problem with consolidated power.

Religion is the prefect template for corruption. Anywhere from hundreds to millions of devout worshipers who believe the unfounded teachings of a human (either in book form or spoken word) and are typically willing to die for those beliefs has all the makings of disaster. And I agree, this applies to governments and corporations as well. Pretty much anything that exploits an ideal. (edited this thought a bit)

What proof do you have that religion is the template, and not just suffering from a problem that affects to all large hierarchies?

Re: Suicidal Software Developer

#190
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that I have a friend who was brought out of many years suicidal depression by his faith in God. I say that simply to add balance to our anecdotal judgments upon religion, albeit he isn't part of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

1) The person above never claimed above that losing their faith directly caused their suicidal depression. As such your anecdote does not balance out any judgment about religion I have. 2) I am already ideologically committed to being ill-disposed towards the concept of religion and, honestly, your single datum won't change that. 3) Are you claiming that your friend found God (they had no faith faith before) and this…

I'm the person above, to clarify some things:

I was suicidal prior to leaving the religion. I didn't leave until age 29, but I have been suicidal since age 16. Leaving the religion however did worsen my depression. This is because my friends and family shunned me, I no longer knew where to turn for "answers" (more on that below). Ultimately I was depressed that I had dedicated 29 years of my life to a lie.

I wanted to be so many things in life and I am a person who actually has the ability to achieve those things. My religion robbed me of those opportunities. First by suggesting college was a bad thing in the 1970s and thus preventing my father from attending, second by pointing out the bad in every possible career or lifestyle choice that fails to conform to the Jehovah's Witness standard.

It would be a very foolish to think the source of my depression is caused by the loss of "Jehovah" (the god of the Witnesses, thus the name). Jehovah is nothing more than a delusion. Jehovah, who I knew as the one true God, creator of everything – a being that I called "father" in my head; a creature that supposedly loved his son so much that he killed him for the sake of human lives (I can't help but wonder if this is why Witness parents can write their children off so easily) is simply an adult imaginary friend.

This imaginary friend is spoken to in in prayer. Any faithful Witness says at least four prayers a day (one before each meal, and one before bed). That adds up to 28 prayers a week. Unless you count the group prayers said at the weekly meetings (church), then you're looking at 34 prayers a week. Oh and let's not forget personal study (preparation for the meetings, three times a week) and family study (once a week). Now you're up to 38 prayers. Oh wait, I forgot about field service (preaching door to door) at least twice a week (more if you're a full time preacher). That's 40 prayers a week. My father once gave a talk at one of our meetings and said he prayed on the ride to and from work everyday, and we were also told to say silent prayers to ask for courage when preaching. I would say praying 50~ times a week is pretty common for a faithful Witness. And these are very personal prayers – like talking to a friend, but in your mind (unless it's a group prayer). Nothing is by route, save for the sign off "in Jesus name we pray, amen", but even then people get creative – "in your son's name whom we all deeply love, amen" etc.

A typical group prayer is something like this (imagine you're at a Kingdom Hall (church) on a Sunday and the study is about Christ's death:

"Jehovah our God in the heavens, we approach you this fine Sunday morning, the Sun, though hot reminds us of your glory and infinite power. Jehovah you truly are worthy of the praise and honor that your son so lovingly died for, and as we gather this morning to talk about his death we ask that you give us an appropriate portion of your Holy Spirit so that we may fully digest the spiritual banquet that you have laid before us. Jehovah please continue to watch over the faithful and discreet slave class so that they may in turn continue to provide us with the proper food at the proper time. Also we ask that you be with the Smith family, we know they are going through so much and we ask that you help them cope with their loss. In Jesus name we pray, amen"

That would be considered an appropriate prayer in terms of length, subject matter, and conclusion and the fact that it was made up on the cuff as opposed to by rote.

Individual prayers are very similar, but more personal. You're supposed to pray about any decisions you have to make, pour your heart out, and throw your burdens on Jehovah.

I did this for 29 years. I'm pretty sure the waves of depression I get about the religion are something akin nausea, but in my brain. I don't miss god, I despise the very notion that one would exist. I don't miss religion, I despise it for essentially driving me to the brink of insanity when I admitted there is no god to myself.

Imagine praying like that for 29 years, not thinking you would die, spending countless hours preaching from door to door, studying books filled with lies and misquotes, having your mind filled with an alternate history of reality made up by groups of men in ties.

Witnesses are mind raped and very few people are equipped to deal with that sort trauma. I'm pretty certain depression and suicidal tendencies are a natural reaction.

All of that said, I could see how some people would cling to religion and claim it saved them from suicide. Some people need lies to get through life.

Edit:

on "not knowing where to turn for answers" – nearly every question on religion and life in general that you have can be answered by a Witness using Watchtower literature and circular logic. What you should watch, eat, drink, wear, think; how you speak, the friends you choose, when you should date, the types of entertainment to watch, how to deal with -insert religion-, how to deal with -insert objection to core witness belief-; you name it, it can be answered. You aren't really taught to think for yourself when you're raised by a very faithful witness family.

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