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India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

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Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#191

Post by rayiner »

rm999 wrote: post #66
rayiner wrote: post #12

I feel bad for what happened to this poor woman, but it just goes to show you the disconnect between academic romanticization ("South Asian Studies" major at U. Chicago) and the cold hard light of reality. And that reality is that people flee these countries for a reason. People don't just decide to uproot their families and leave everything they know 10,000 miles in the rear view mirror for nothing. What bugs me are…

>people flee these countries for a reason ... massive cultural and social advantages Woah, there's some serious ethnocentrism in your comment. I know 100s of people who have moved to the USA from India, including my parents, a lot of their friends, and a large number of friends and colleagues. These people tend to be very progressive for India and still very few think Western culture is objectively better than Indian…

I don't think there is anything wrong with a certain amount of ethnocentrism. It is taken for granted that culture matters in say a startup, so I see no reason not to extend that thinking to nations.

While cultural preference might be subjective, culture impacts things that are objectively measurable. How close you stand in lines might be purely subjective, but the woman in the article did not suffer PTSD for purely subjective reasons.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#192

Post by rayiner »

chrischen wrote: post #152
moultano wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you talked to the women? My wife is Indian as are many of our friends. The men all think wistfully about moving back to India. None of the women do. People are skeptical of "American Culture" in large part because even after living here for years, they view it through the lens of how it was portrayed in Indian cinema. Regardless, the women all appreciate that in America they can safely go about their business in…

That's not culture so much as it is the side effect of culture merged with their current development state as a country. That is, if India's quality of living and development were advanced to that of the west, there probably wouldn't be anything objectively inferior culture-wise.

Money can't buy you class. See: Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#193

Post by dylangs1030 »

rayiner wrote: post #189
Tichy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does liberalism mean in that context - the belief that everybody is only responsible for themselves? (Again serious question, I don't know how to interpret this).

"Liberal" as in this meme: http://www.quickmeme.com/College-Liberal

That was hilarious, and correctly describes many people I knew in college.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#194

Post by lenkite »

I write this as an Indian male in his 30s. India sucks for women. And north India especially has got really terrible over the last decade. Thankfully, the South still is relatively better but is also deteriorating.

What's even worse and what I absolutely hate are the Indian men who wear BLINKERS and say nothing is wrong or say that this is the same situation everywhere. (NO ITS NOT). Or they try and beat their chests and say "you aren't patriotic", "you are being too negative about India". Simple statistics shows this. Even taking into account significant under-reporting percentages in the past, there is still a massive increase in rapes, muggings, thefts etc over the last decade.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#195

Post by lenkite »

moultano wrote: post #103
rm999 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people flee these countries for a reason ... massive cultural and social advantages Woah, there's some serious ethnocentrism in your comment. I know 100s of people who have moved to the USA from India, including my parents, a lot of their friends, and a large number of friends and colleagues. These people tend to be very progressive for India and still very few think Western culture is objectively better than Indian…

Have you talked to the women? My wife is Indian as are many of our friends. The men all think wistfully about moving back to India. None of the women do. People are skeptical of "American Culture" in large part because even after living here for years, they view it through the lens of how it was portrayed in Indian cinema. Regardless, the women all appreciate that in America they can safely go about their business in…

+1 to this. Captures it eminently.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#197

Post by kpennell »

cesarbs wrote: post #159
eshvk wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What bugs me are people, largely motivated by financial interests, in my opinion, who downplay the massive cultural and social advantages we still enjoy in the west over places like India. We may be dealing with demographic challenges and sometimes sclerotic economics, but I'd take France in decline over any BRIC country on a supposed upswing any day of the week... But the almighty dollar is the most important thin…

I usually criticize Brazil (the B in BRIC), which is my home country, in comments, but I must correct you here. Regarding respect for people - be it that they are women, or members of minorities - Brazil doesn't have the issues those other countries face (and I wonder what the situation is like in Russia). Women in Brazil enjoy the same level of freedom they would enjoy in America or Europe. There is no strong patria…

here here!

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#198

Post by chrischen »

saraid216 wrote: post #175
chrischen wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not culture so much as it is the side effect of culture merged with their current development state as a country. That is, if India's quality of living and development were advanced to that of the west, there probably wouldn't be anything objectively inferior culture-wise.

How do you distinguish between culture and its side effects?

I didn't mean side effect of culture. I meant the effect of the product of culture and their current state of development.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#199

Post by grdvnl »

godzilla82 wrote: post #135
grdvnl wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to your comment: Even Indians who grow up in cities get the same kind of stares when they visit villages. As an young child every year when my siblings and I visit a tiny village where my parents grew up, there are always people who live around the neighborhood peeping through our doors to see who has arrived and what we were up to. Even when we walk in the muddy roads or ride in an ox-cart to visit the farms,…

>This is also part of Indian culture(good or bad). How is it good? Btw just because a lot of people practice a gross behavior doesn't make it part of the culture. I hate it when people give excuses for behavior by saying it is "cultural". By the same logic, Bride burning, dowry and female foeticide is also practiced, Do you also consider it a part of the culture?

Ok, when I said it is part of culture I did not by any means justify the behavior. Cultural habits have their own downsides and upsides. They also evolve. So, right now that is the state. I wish it got better. If my comment sounded like I supported that behavior, I would like to make it clear that intent of the comment was not that.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#200

Post by grdvnl »

ankitdvl wrote: post #180
godzilla82 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is also part of Indian culture(good or bad). How is it good? Btw just because a lot of people practice a gross behavior doesn't make it part of the culture. I hate it when people give excuses for behavior by saying it is "cultural". By the same logic, Bride burning, dowry and female foeticide is also practiced, Do you also consider it a part of the culture?

The main problem is with the level of education and mannerism 90% of the indians posses. These people are always in fear of god and trapped by their religions. They are not enlightened enough to make all the logical decisions themselves which causes the main problem. They try to objectify anything and everything they see. It's like a hungry man stealing food from shop. Without education and knowledge every society is…

Even the highly educated in India go around temples and follow all superstitious beliefs. My parents quote examples of Indian scientists at NASA and their superstitious beliefs to make me believe in religion and the super powers. Their reasoning being there are smart people at NASA who follow the astrological calendar when it comes to events at their homes. So, I doubt education alone makes a person better. Character building and rational thinking is whole another ball game where Indian education falls short.
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