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Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

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Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#191

Post by pornel »

krosaen wrote: post #149

The CEO of Toyota Research Institute, Gill Pratt, had some good (albeit self-serving) points about the benefits of hybrids and PEVs to complement EVS a few years back that I bookmarked and keep coming back to: https://web.archive.org/web/20210727090309/https://medium.co... https://web.archive.org/web/20210825054702/https://medium.co... > Maximizing the benefit of every battery cell produced requires that we distribut…

I'm not sure about this, because a smaller battery pack with fewer modules needs to work much harder.

PHEV batteries are discharged at higher rate (C) while a BEV can spread the load across many more modules. EV range of PHEV is so small that the battery gets fully cycled daily, while a BEV with similar commute distances and charging can easily keep batteries at a more comfortable state of charge.

The recycling thing doesn't make sense to me. For getting raw materials back the difficulty is the same (get the cells out and grind them), and having more cells per pack should amortize labor cost better.

BEV batteries aren't recycled at scale yet, because there aren't many to recycle. They're easier to reuse for grid storage, since BEV packs already have many modules hooked up to a single BMS.

So this sounds more like Toyota is just supply constrained on batteries.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#192

Post by Spartan-S63 »

9x39 wrote: post #167
Spartan-S63 wrote: post #126

I now have a hybrid Toyota truck (Tacoma i-Force MAX), so it's not like the classical EV/BEV powertrain, from my understanding. Instead, the motor is between the engine and the transmission, so it gives an initial kick of torque before the engine starts or provides sufficient power. It's interesting that Toyota has two hybrid models: one for efficiency and one for low-end torque performance.

https://www.tacoma4g.com/forum/threads/toyota-i-force-max-hy... Also have an iforce max, it’s a weird one since our systems are 288V systems capable of running the drivetrain for a bit and not the 40V “mild hybrid” systems that only run auxiliary systems.

Yeah, it's certainly a departure from the Prius-style hybrid powertrain. I'll watch that video as I haven't come across it yet!

Also, I love how my 4th gen Tacoma drives! So glad I got a long-bed Trailhunter last year.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#193

Post by Tostino »

jdlshore wrote: post #175
dghlsakjg wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lithium batteries perform terribly at that temperature and cannot be charged at all without permanent damage. They basically need to have a block heater hooked up to the battery if you ever want to charge.

I believe modern EVs have battery heating built in for exactly that reason.

Which uses the energy from the battery, so if they did that, you better not go out of town for a couple of weeks or you'll come home to a dead car.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#194

Post by bombcar »

9x39 wrote: post #169
baq wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Sienna does everything any SUV does the same or better, as confirmed in the video itself, change my mind?

The Sienna is a great rig but doesn’t look cool, which is rule 1 /s As long we’re talking driving on roads, the AWD Sienna is basically an SUV. It is not, however, something that speaks to guys who want a specific look or fantasy from their rig.

The Kia Carnival does pretty good at looking like an SUV from further away.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#195

Post by bombcar »

globular-toast wrote: post #145
avgDev wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 1 child and need a big car, such as Honda Pilot. We are active. We travel. My son plays sports. I need a 2 inch hitch for our heavy ebikes. I also need 5k towing a few times a year. I do have a 2nd economy car, and I like driving smaller cars anyway, but having one big car is nice.

You don't need any of that, obviously. It really is best to save that word and you'll better appreciate that you can have things way, way beyond what you need rather than living in this eternal state of "barely getting by". It's all in your head. It's completely up to you if you want to be rich today.

Need is almost always relative; if your house is next door to a 24 hour gas station you don’t meed to have a bathroom in your house as you could walk next door and use the gas station’s - but most everyone would feel this was a bit insane.

It might be more instructive to discuss what missions a particular vehicle or vehicles enables.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#196

Post by gmerc »

bluesquared wrote: post #128
MegaDeKay wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another consideration is your local climate. It can get down to -40C here. Both ICE and EVs pay a range penalty in those conditions, but it compounds the problem with charging station density that EVs have + the time it takes to charge. And at least with an ICE, all that engine heat can be put to good use trying to keep the interior warm.

The cold problems are not as overblown as most people who live outside of these environments think. Yes, for most commutes the reduction in winter (sub-freezing temperature) range when home-based charging is available is not significant. For my anecdote, my (occasional) commute distance is enough that I need to change my driving habits to have enough range/safety margin to make it back home during this cold period. I…

norwegians seem to not mind

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#197

Post by CobaltFire »

avgDev wrote: post #103
graemep wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many kids do you have that you need two SUVs to carry them all? its not common.

I have 1 child and need a big car, such as Honda Pilot. We are active. We travel. My son plays sports. I need a 2 inch hitch for our heavy ebikes. I also need 5k towing a few times a year. I do have a 2nd economy car, and I like driving smaller cars anyway, but having one big car is nice.

I have a van that does all of that better. Seriously.

Mercedes Metris, and I average 27MPG driving it like I do my Leaf.

It's also amazing for going to the water and being able to change in it, going skiing and being able to dress out, etc.

SUV's are hugely overrated. I have a 4WD (GX470) and honestly we rarely ever drive it because even for fire roads the van is more than capable enough.

That said, it IS a niche vehicle. I'm rather sad they didn't catch on more.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#198

Post by [deleted] »

tzs wrote: post #165
tedggh wrote: post #50

I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…

> After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense In some places in the US the hybrid can have lower energy costs per mile. Using the average price/kWh of residential electricity and the average price/gallon of gasoline in each US state as of maybe a year ago (I haven't updated my spreadsheet in a while) a Toyota Prius would beat my EV (which the sticker says is 129 MPGe city, 103 MP…

[deleted]

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#199

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Tostino wrote: post #193
jdlshore wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe modern EVs have battery heating built in for exactly that reason.

Which uses the energy from the battery, so if they did that, you better not go out of town for a couple of weeks or you'll come home to a dead car.

You just keep it plugged in when you are gone, what’s the issue?

This reminds me that in Yakutsk, you put your car in a big sock while it’s parked and the car will occasionally start on its own to keep the block from freezing (they don’t have plugs outside, so no block warmers, no EVs). If you leave your car parked long enough, you’ll run out of gas and your engine will probably be hosed.

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