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Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

bbc.com

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Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#191

Post by jazz9k »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #151
Wytwwww wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with western countries also openly declaring their intent to destabilize Iran As opposed to standing idly by when the regime 'stabilizes' the country by murdering thousands of people? It's well past the stage where non violent protest or resistance stopped being a viable option..

Dear American, kindly solve your own internal issues first and then - maybe - you can talk on how to "help" some other countries on the literal other side of the world TYM.

I'm cool with that. Let them fight their own battles...but also don't ever ask or expect the US to help.

The problem with your stance is that too many people want it both ways: They don't want the US to intervene, but then also want support in terms of money and special treatment for people emigrating from these countries (and blame the US for the deaths that occur for a terrible government).

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#192

Post by martin-t »

don_esteban wrote: post #120
stickfigure wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to only have a good track record in places with a democratic tradition. Some dictators have figured out you can just imprison and kill the opposition, and keep doing this until there is no more opposition. The Khomeini government is not going to just say "oh, you're right" and change. Neither will the Kim or Putin governments. Sometimes - sadly - violence is the least worst answer.

Re: Sometimes - sadly - violence is the least worst answer. The least worst for whom?! For normal Iranian people who just want to leave their life? I hate my current government. Do I think an armed uprising or a USA bombing campaign would would improve things? Heck NO!

Differentiate legal, practical and moral reasons.

Hitler was so bad that anybody is willing to publicly talk about killing him, there are movies glorifying it, people talk about going back in time and killing baby Hitler. He was so bad that the very strong taboo against killing does not work on him.

So, when _exactly_ did it become OK to kill him? Think about it.

What cumulative sum of his actions between 1889 and 1945 tipped the balance?

Now, do those same rules apply to current dictators or people in the process of becoming dictators even if the taboo is still strong there?

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#193

Post by Rover222 »

dataflow wrote: post #123
Rover222 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> all my friends who posted non-stop about supporting Palestine > I'm saying if you were a very vocal pro-Hamas activist Palestine ≠ Hamas Pro-Palestinian ≠ Pro-Hamas If you genuinely don't believe a significant number of people support the former but not the latter, I... don't even know what to tell you. It certainly says a lot that you can neither distinguish these two nor believe anyone else sees a distinction. >…

[flagged]

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#194

Post by Rover222 »

Archio wrote: post #110
Rover222 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>That crowd only seems to care if they can actively oppose Israel or the current administration Can you think of any motivating reasons for the crowd to focus on Israel specifically? Last I checked, the American government isn't sending billions of dollars of weaponry and political cover to the Iranian government, so that is one massive reason why protesting Israel makes more sense. >have not made a peep about the th…

So you want you elected leaders to save Palestinians (perfectly reasonable), but don't want your elected leaders to consider doing something out when thousands are being massacred in the street?

You really think if the US wasn't supporting Israel, no one would have cared about Gaza?

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#195

Post by Rover222 »

pydry wrote: post #127
Rover222 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>I'm saying if you were a very vocal pro-Hamas activist "Pro hamas activist" has become the calling card of deeply committed western and israeli islamophobes. Much like their close cousins, the holocaust denying anti semite, they almost universally refuse to recognize the UN recognized genocide in gaza. >That crowd only seems to care if they can actively oppose Israel or the current administration Im sure if the curr…

[flagged]

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#196

Post by mupuff1234 »

pydry wrote: post #133
mupuff1234 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic collapse, failed infrastructure, lack of human rights, ruthless religious dictatorship? All while spending 25% of their budget on military ventures. Just to name a few.

The economic suffering has largely been inflicted deliberately by US sanctions. This would seem to suggest that sinking an aircraft carrier and frigate or two would actually be justified according to your principles?

My principals is that a government should do what's good for the people of their country.

Are your principals that a government should only focus on self preservation?

What would be better for the people of Iran, sinking an American aircraft carrier or just disbanding their nuclear and long range ballistic missile programs?

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#198

Post by newsclues »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #154
Roark66 wrote: post #146

I applaud their bravery in remaining non violent, but I'm not sure that is the best strategy as the state showed their willingness to just kill everyone. Would organising an armed resistance be more effective? The state dissappears people. Have them organise and dissappear the leaders of the revolutionary guard or at the very least help another state (like Israel) to target them. Non violence works only in democracie…

Nonviolence works where the rulers have a conscience (or at least where those who carry out the rulers' will do). Would armed resistance be more effective? How many guns can they get their hands on? I don't know the answer to that, but my expectation is, not many. (I am open to correction.)

Should airdrop uzis to the people

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#199

Post by tehjoker »

A reminder that American economic sanctions are a primary cause of the situation that causes protests against the Iranian government. Our government is attempting to destroy Iran, an independent nation that is not our enemy.

When will American students stage a large scale anti-government protest against the regime? Oh right, the billionaires and zionist lobby cracked down on the encampments with the (violent) help of police and by firing three Ivy League Presidents to coerce the entire educational system to abandon whatever liberal principles remained.

No war on Iran.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#200

Post by dataflow »

Rover222 wrote: post #193
dataflow wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all my friends who posted non-stop about supporting Palestine > I'm saying if you were a very vocal pro-Hamas activist Palestine ≠ Hamas Pro-Palestinian ≠ Pro-Hamas If you genuinely don't believe a significant number of people support the former but not the latter, I... don't even know what to tell you. It certainly says a lot that you can neither distinguish these two nor believe anyone else sees a distinction. >…

[flagged]

> all my friends who posted non-stop about supporting Palestine

> very vocal pro-Hamas activist

> Wearing the kaffiyeh is explicitly pro-Hamas and Genocidal towards Israel. It's pretty simple.

OK, simple enough. And you said you are friends with such pro-Hamas, pro-genocidal people?

> I know know why you insist on acting

You clearly neither know what I'm doing (certainly it's not acting), nor why, but feel free to believe as you wish.

> like that's not happening.

Nobody said that's that's not also happening. What I said is there are many, many pro-Palestinians who emphatically do not support Hamas, and you're lumping them together with people who support both (yes, they also exist).

If anyone is insisting on anything, it's you insisting on not making the distinction between these positions or groups, for some reason. And apparently on keeping said pro-Hamas/pro-genocide people as your friends (?!) but I'll avoid speculating why; I imagine you must have extremely compelling reasons.

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