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The future is not self-hosted, but self-sovereign

robertmao.com

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Re: The future is not self-hosted, but self-sovereign

#191

Post by korse »

irishloop wrote: post #103
poisonborz wrote: post #19

Deeply disagree. Looking at the current selfhosted landscape and saying "nice but nobody will want to do this" is like looking around in 1970 and saying "nobody will want to own computers, you just rent them for tasks". I say this after copious amounts of invested time over a timespan of 15 years to selfhost. The software landscape changed immensely. Especially now with AI, the software output and ability to learn is…

> If you don't own your infra, you are dependent. You're dependent regardless. You are dependent on your service provider, your hardware, your UPS battery backup, your RAID drives being easily replaced, your backups. It reminds me of people who raise their own chickens and think they're living off the grid. But they need the materials to build the coop, the chicken feed, fencing, etc.

I don't know anyone who thinks chickens are the path to complete freedom from society. I do know many who feel that chickens and other such measures provide a level of independence from societal structures they wish not to associate with or do not trust.

Having your own infra is similar. You still need electricity, replacement components and perhaps friends with similar ideas that you can trade information/services with over packet radio links but it is certainly better than whoops, no internet for a few days, nothing works, touch grass.

It also is a nice backup in case anyone starts actively censoring (versus the passive self-censoring created by tempting people into walled gardens) the internet where I live. Being able to shitpost over encrypted packet radio and exchange files/news is certainly better than radio silence and state media.

Re: The future is not self-hosted, but self-sovereign

#192

Post by tmcdos »

ls612 wrote: post #178
loceng wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you understand how 1984 extrapolates with today's technologies - and the only defense against corrupt-captured state(s) and industrial complexes toeing the establishment line, in ever increasing consolidation of so-called power-control, is decentralized-distributed tech - and then where the centralization [especially physical infrastructure] becomes their major weakness; yes, there is the control of means of pr…

Guerrilla tactics only work against an enemy with too weak a stomach to exterminate civilians. You’ll notice for instance that there is little guerrilla activity in Russian occupied Ukraine, due to Russia not possessing any such scruples.

Perhaps they realize by first hand that Russian army is the lesser evil than the Ukrainian government or the local oligarchy. On the other hand, there apparently is some guirilla activity in Palestina and Gaza against the Israel occupation. Does it mean that Israel army possess too weak a stomach?

Re: The future is not self-hosted, but self-sovereign

#193

Post by apitman »

fsflover wrote: post #189
apitman wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I only use 1 device for 5 years, then lose it, how do I recover?

From a backup?

Backed up from what? People only use the cloud for backups, at which point the e2ee is compromised.

Re: The future is not self-hosted, but self-sovereign

#194

Post by apitman »

j45 wrote: post #186
apitman wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tailscale + Proxmox is still an order of magnitude more difficult than this is going to need to be.

One can follow a video in about an hour maybe two and be up and have the basics down with proxmox. Of course, if someone wants to figure out perfection the first time it might take a bit longer.

Like I said, an order of magnitude harder than it should be.

It should be install app, do an oauth flow to open a tunnel, done.

Re: The future is not self-hosted, but self-sovereign

#195

Post by hammyhavoc »

oceanhaiyang wrote: post #118
andy99 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I stopped reading when I saw that, I don't care what GPT thinks and am completely allergic to the idiosyncrasies of LLM writing. Plus, yeah the whole idea they couldn't be bothered to write it, or as a corollary to think it through.

Very anti-HN thinking to be posted here. I see a common trend in people loving blogging for it helps solidify their thoughts. Making an LLM do this is only wasting everyone time.

Whatever you think HN is, it isn't. People are not represented by a subdomain of an accelerator.

HN also drank the crypto-crap and NFT Kool-Aid. It's nice to see people able to not follow the groupthink.

Re: The future is not self-hosted, but self-sovereign

#196

Post by j45 »

apitman wrote: post #194
j45 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can follow a video in about an hour maybe two and be up and have the basics down with proxmox. Of course, if someone wants to figure out perfection the first time it might take a bit longer.

Like I said, an order of magnitude harder than it should be. It should be install app, do an oauth flow to open a tunnel, done.

Ah, for Tailscale inside Proxmox I'm assuming.

This script exactly works like as you're describing:

https://community-scripts.github.io/ProxmoxVE/scripts?id=add...

Re: The future is not self-hosted, but self-sovereign

#197

Post by apitman »

j45 wrote: post #196
apitman wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said, an order of magnitude harder than it should be. It should be install app, do an oauth flow to open a tunnel, done.

Ah, for Tailscale inside Proxmox I'm assuming. This script exactly works like as you're describing: https://community-scripts.github.io/ProxmoxVE/scripts?id=add...

Most humans don't know what a script is

Re: The future is not self-hosted, but self-sovereign

#198

Post by fsflover »

apitman wrote: post #193
fsflover wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a backup?

Backed up from what? People only use the cloud for backups, at which point the e2ee is compromised.

It doesn't matter what people are currently doing. In Matrix, there is a possibility to make reliable, encrypted backups. It can also be done with a simple interface.

Re: The future is not self-hosted, but self-sovereign

#199

Post by xp84 »

ndriscoll wrote: post #120
xp84 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason at least in my country (USA) is the dire state of broadband. A few people have awesome symmetric fiber, but it’s about a single digit percentage. Most of the rest uses DOCSIS with wildly asymmetrical ratios (e.g. mine is 1000 down/100 up), dynamic IP, and some have unreliable connectivity. Getting people to self host without corporate dependencies unfortunately means dynamic DNS, revealing your home IP add…

Dynamic DNS doesn't reveal your IP to anyone that doesn't know the domain name. Most self-hosted services also have offline modes. e.g. my finamp playlists are synced to my phone when I'm home and then play offline anywhere else. Within your home if your Internet connection goes down, a self-hosted service (e.g. streaming video) has better availability than cloud ones.

> Dynamic DNS doesn't reveal your IP to anyone that doesn't know the domain name

That assumes you don't set up SSL, since cert transparency now forces the publishing of every hostname that a cert is issued for.

(Painfully) work-around-able though, with a paid wildcard cert and manual setup, or with a self-hosted certificate authority that you have to install everywhere.

Re: The future is not self-hosted, but self-sovereign

#200

Post by xp84 »

anonzzzies wrote: post #148
xp84 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are no incentives until you get screwed over yourself. In B2B you have a point. In the consumer space this doesn’t happen though. I know several people who have had big snafus with their data with Google, Apple, etc. but none of them moved to self hosting. I agree with the people who have said elsewhere that that’s mainly a user experience problem that could be solved - but I also agree the companies like Goo…

Well.. It depends what they are. Social networks, obviously are an issue. But for personal email, photos, vids, content etc, that's not isolating; the self hosted versions have the same sharing / coop features as the google/ms ones for most / all personal needs. And setting up is just not very hard. It is a niche, I agree, but at least where I live, people are getting increasingly angry with the big corps and are ask…

> personal email

no, it is isolating because self-hosting personal email you may as well just pipe your messages straight to /dev/null. Google and Microsoft will straight up blackhole messages coming from a random IP, let alone a residential one.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of selfhosting and play around with it myself, but at no point in the next 10 years will it be ready for average people to "plug and play" and for that reason it will be limited to tech enthusiasts like us.

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