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Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#191

Post by futureshock »

dainiusse wrote: post #107

The best phrase I read by someone. "Retirement is a financial goal - it has nothing to do with age". And this makes huge sense...

I’d encourage thinking not just about yourself or your immediate circle when it comes to policy like retirement age. State run pension systems affect nearly everyone, not just the extremely fortunate few who can become financially independent at a younger age. And that is also largely an American phenomenon anyway. Salaries are much lower on average than in Europe and there is far less differential between minimum wage and what senior employees get paid. There’s also not the same culture of investing because European companies don’t have the same performance as the US stock market. Lower yield real estate investment is much more common in many European countries. And with strong social safety nets Europeans are generally less pressured to save a huge nest egg.

So this raising of the retirement age will affect a huge portion of workers and 70 is OLD to be working full time for all but the most relaxed jobs. Most older folks I know have know being dealing with multiple chronic age related illnesses well before 70.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#192

Post by mistrial9 »

JadoJodo wrote: post #187

Without discarding the issue of the moving goalpost, I do wonder what the quality of life contrast looks like between a 70-year old in 2025 and a 70-year old in 1925. Note: I arbitrarily picked the latter date, as I wasn't able to (with a quick search) locate the year in which the original retirement age was established in Denmark. I also wonder what it would look like for the government to encourage (or even facilit…

around 1900 more than a quarter of the population of Denmark emigrated to the USA IIR

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#193

Post by niemandhier »

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #23
tossandthrow wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. And this is the case in all western countries. It is just being realized in different ways. Fundamentalle there are 3 ways to cope 1. reduce pensions 2. Raise taxes 3. Decrease amount of benefit receivers. Denmark choose number 3

Wouldn't the fourth way be via increasing either birth rate or immigration?

I can only give you the rundown for Germany, but I guess it’s similar in Denmark:

Basically the state spends to much money on humans in general. A young qualified immigrant might have a less negative impact than a slightly older German person, but both of them will be money sinks in the long run.

Statistically immigrants in Germany are less qualified than the general population, so they’ll have an even more negative impact.

The only valid solution is to reduce the spending per person, both birthrate and immigration will only delay the problem.

Denmark should be in a slightly better position than Germany since their health system is cheaper.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#194

Post by PieTime »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #149
bombcar wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are quite a few highly paid professions where the main purpose of that profession’s union seems to be to prevent there being an adequate supply of the professionals.

Like med schools in the US

Yup, limit residents and percentage grading ensure that doctors are in short supply. Compare to the extremely streamline jr Doctor programs in the UK.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#195

Post by ido »

ImHereToVote wrote: post #141
spacebanana7 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is the only developed country which has a sustained positive fertility rate.

Seems like the US taxpayer should subsidize all countries as much as they subsidize Israel. That would fix it.

US economic aid to Israel ended in 2007 (18 years ago).

The US since then only provides Israel with military aid (most of which is only allowed to be spent buying US-made goods). It’s more of a subsidy for the US military-industrial complex.

Also despite the military aid Israel still spends a much greater share of GDP on its military than most or all other developed countries (so the US isn't subsidising Israel’s unusually high birth rate).

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#196

Post by soerxpso »

jampekka wrote: post #119

It's utterly insane that people need to work more and longer as technology increases productivity. A truly dystopian economic system. In 1930 Keynes projected that by 2000 their grandchildren could work 15 hours per week¹. Now the projection is that we will work more and longer in the future. And what is this labor supposed to even do? How much of even current work really increases wellbeing? Graeber's thesis of bull…

> In 1930 Keynes projected that by 2000 their grandchildren could work 15 hours per week

This projection came true. You can live with a 1930s living standard while working 15 hours per week at a median wage. However, nobody wants to live at a 1930s living standard. It turns out that in aggregate people prefer to spend productivity gains on conveniences and higher standards of living than on working fewer hours.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#197

Post by mistrial9 »

mahkeiro wrote: post #109
lancekey wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But people are living longer, in better health (I think but didn’t verify with data) and entering the workforce later (due to more secondary schooling). Setting aside the issues of declining birth rate for a minute, this seems like a reasonable adjustment to the other factors?

People are living longer (but not really in the US), but the health span is not seeing the same increase unfortunately.

there is not one USA with respect to these things.. "all people" did not stop living more than 65 years recently

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#198

Post by anonzzzies »

pwarner wrote: post #146
rors wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first pension was put in place by Bismark as a way to "steal the clothes of the socialists whilst they were bathing". It was seen as the cheapest social benefit because life expectancies were so low. A popular policy delivered at low cost to the state. That people are living longer is why the system is failing. It's an interesting thought experiment to consider whether any country would introduce a state pension…

I'm in the US, but I'd be happy if social security ages were pushed out to 75 or 80 but benefits preserved. I'm saving heavily for retirement, but the biggest challenge is figuring out how long you're going to live. If you have sort of a defined and horizon, it's much easier to calculate.

Yeah, probably 90 here in the EU is a good cut off. People I know seem to make 80 quite easily, but at 85 it goes down quite a bit and after that even the best seem to be done. For me that's 35 years ago at least but I am planning to not get to 90 and if I do, I won't be interested (or know it) anyway.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#200

Post by mattlondon »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #185
nicolashahn wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So close! Pensions are actually property taken from the younger generation and given to retirees.

Those retirees have been paying into the pension system their whole life.

So have younger people too, just their life has not been as long (yet).

The way it usually works is taxation from the current working generation pays for the current retirees. You are not paying into your own account for later (that is a private pension)

FWIW in the UK there are more children in poverty (so their parents too) than retirees who are in poverty. Kids don't vote though...

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