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Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

theguardian.com

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Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#191

Post by hashmush »

verisimi wrote: post #59

The people in nordic countries seem so naive to me. They trust their governments, their authorities to do this stuff, to both determine the greater good and then implement it. The political class couldn't possibly act immorally, for their own benefit, apparently. Whereas the reality is that these actions are preplanned internationally and designed (by opaque agencies such the club of Rome and the UN) in order for ind…

> The people in nordic countries seem so naive to me. They trust their governments, their authorities to do this stuff, to both determine the greater good and then implement it. The political class couldn't possibly act immorally, for their own benefit, apparently.

Not everyone is happy with this change, if that makes you feel better.

Also, this is implemented by the city, by real people (yes, politicians are people) that Stockholmers voted for.

Political class as a concept doesn't make much sense in Sweden, just FYI.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#192

Post by morelisp »

ecmascript wrote: post #67
morelisp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can carpenters not drive electric vehicles?

Usually because they are too small but that will also force everyone to buy new cars which isn't exactly ideal for the climate or the economy of these people affected. Cars in Sweden already cost like the double amount of a car in the US.

> Usually because they are too small

Delivery vehicles are usually larger than a carpenter's, and are already electrifying most places.

> that will also force everyone to buy new cars

"Everyone" meaning, laborers servicing that area? Strange definition of "everyone".

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#193

Post by morelisp »

jansan wrote: post #143
morelisp wrote: post #57

However small it is, it seems far preferable to Berlin's approach of building a highway down the middle while simultaneously refusing to even consider the 20 35 target.

Why? Cars are the most convenient way of transportation.

No.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#194

Post by morelisp »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #189
CalRobert wrote: post #20

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course). I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fanta…

[flagged]

A priori, people who don't drive in cities are not affected by car bans in cities.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#195

Post by dang »

pornel wrote: post #126
qwytw wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs are not the solution for that, brake and tire wear contribute to as much or more PM2.5 and 2-3 times more PM10 pollution than modern ICEs . Also while there will be some improvement it will be possibly partially outweighed by the fact the EVs generally weight more. Of course we can just ignore that which is not at all crazy... Edit: I'm certainly not using this as argument to not ban ICE vehicles in city centers.…

This is a misleading whataboutism. EVs use primarily regen for braking, so they contribute almost no brake wear. And that isn't even a problem. It matters what is emitted. Tire wear particles are relatively large, and don't stay in the air. Anti-EV disinformation uses the trick of counting pollution by weight, which completely discounts gaseous emissions, which is the real pollution that people breathe in.

Please make your substantive points without internet tropes like "whataboutism" and "disinformation", which are really just forms of name-calling at this point. Your comment would be fine without those bits.

This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#196

Post by scatters »

dingnuts wrote: post #116
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~50% of Americans are sedentary and obese. They're obviously going to want cars. Walking & cycling are not options (see sedentary).

There are also disabled and elderly people. Try walking and cycling to get your groceries with multiple sclerosis or a couple bad hips. Cars are awesome.

Try driving to get your groceries with epilepsy or a vision impairment.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#197

Post by southernplaces7 »

morelisp wrote: post #194
southernplaces7 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A priori, people who don't drive in cities are not affected by car bans in cities.

First of all, maybe they are. Not everyone who dirves in a city lives in that city, and might have all sorts of practical reasons for having to drive inside it regardless of where they live.

Secondly, my response was to the other comment's general disdain for cars and their owners, without specifying that they were referring to city-living car owners.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#198

Post by scatters »

teddyh wrote: post #2

Another article in English: https://www.thelocal.se/20231010/stockholm-to-ban-petrol-and... > Maps here: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/bensin-och-diese... > and here: https://www.dn.se/sverige/bensin-och-dieselbilar-forbjuds-i-... >. Note that the area is comparatively tiny ; 180 000m² according to some articles, closer to 200 000m² according to my measurements – but in any case smaller than 50 acres. O…

OpenStreetMap has the zone as a map feature: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/127782964

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#199

Post by hyperman1 »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #189
CalRobert wrote: post #20

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course). I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fanta…

[flagged]

I think you're reading too much into your parent's comment.

I personally am pro limiting cars. But, if you have to go further than 10km or move a load of stuff around, go ahead, by all means.

My personal experience with cars is daily hours of gridlock hell, with drivers screaming, cutting you off, and being generally nasty. Car sickness from the stop start stop start as bonus. I much rather take the train, do some laptop stuff or read a book, and end up 20 minutes later. I do think we in western europe overoptimized for cars, to the detriment of our children and our health. I do think an SUV generally is a sign of someone being dangerous for everybody else, with not much upside.

But hollywood movies show huge roads with, presumably, hours of absolutely nothing. I don't think I've ever seen more than 1 whole km with nothing but roads and fields, but I can't blame anyone for owning a car in that kind of landscape.

People have vastly different experiences, and equally different needs. Car fanatics, car haters, and everyone in between should try to acknowledge and respect that.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#200

Post by Tade0 »

philistine wrote: post #164
yourusername wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you go by number of trips and then even if you limit yourself to just trips 3.7 to 7.5 km cars are still are 50% more common than bikes. https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/figures/detail/84708ENG

That is absolutely great. A third of all short trips in the Netherlands are biked. To this North American, this is mental. What a great stat, that I trust the country to make even more impressive.

There's another, not great stat:

https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/more-traffic-deaths-in...

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