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I’m ready to trade in my electric car

latimes.com

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Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#191

Post by noogle »

tapoxi wrote: post #184
noogle wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the article seems to be right - wait with EVs until they improve. Why suffer the pains of an early adopter?

As an early adopter, the benefit of less maintenance, home "refueling", and the fact that an EV is more fun to drive offsets the hassle. We've done a few road trips in it, and while road trip charging is annoying (we have a VW ID4, so the CCS network) its still worth dealing with because we enjoy the EV. Personally I think right now EVs are a great second car for almost everyone because you get the benefits of an EV…

That's the thing about cars: their real test (or importance) is not the 90% of the time spent in the "happy path" (short, planned drives after a full night charge). It's to address those edge but critical cases - long trips, unexpected drives, off-the-beaten-path routes.

Another thing rarely raised is the correlated nature of traffic issues. Charging is fine now, mostly because it seems there is a huge over-provisioning of chargers compared to EVs on the road. What happens with busy days? An evacuation order sending 1M people on the same route at the same time? For ICEV there is an easy solution. Not for EVs.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#192

Post by retrocryptid »

cs702 wrote: post #19

At the moment, ONLY Tesla has decent supercharging (i.e., fast-charging) infrastructure in the US: https://www.tesla.com/findus I regularly go on ~300-mile drives that need only a single charging stop, lasting 15-20 minutes, on my Tesla EV. By the time I've gone to the bathroom and gotten a drink, the supercharger has added 100-150+ miles of range and the EV is ready to go. All the stalls always work. No other EV bra…

My brother's new Tesla cost $76,000 more than my used Fiat 500. The fiat gets something like 26mpg in the city and 34 on the highway. If gas is $5/gal, then it's going to be 400,000 miles or so before the cost of gas equals the $76,000 price differential.

(It occurs to me I didn't even factor in the cost of the electricity to pay for miles his Tesla drives.)

I'm also driving a car with about half to one fourth the environmental impact to construct (if you think the impact is proportional to the construction cost)

I'm about 60,000 miles into owning the car and aside from typical maintenance and a fuel recirc solenoid that had to be replaced, it's not been that expensive to operate.

It has the benefit that no one seems to want to steal it, so my anti-theft package is just to park it next to a Mercedes or BMW.

My battery has never spontaneously ignited and it doesn't cost $24k to replace every xxx-thousand miles.

But it's not all roses, I don't get to ride in the HOV lane, but that's fine. I'm a socialist and prefer the HOV lane be used for HOVs which are CONSIDERABLY more eco-friendly than ANY single-occupant electric or hybrid.

My Fiat is pretty peppy for an ICE vehicle, but yes, not nearly as good at low end torque as EVs. But it's much better than the '71 VW bug I learned to drive on.

But I think my point is... the upfront cost and TCO differentials between ICE and EVs make it difficult to support the argument "EVs are cheaper than ICEs"

They will be, someday. But that day is not now and that vehicle is not a Tesla.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#193

Post by elihu »

azinman2 wrote: post #187
elihu wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come to think of it, that's probably going to happen eventually. There's no future for internal combustion ground transportation, and eventually most of those gas stations are going to be closed. I wouldn't be surprised if, when parts of the country begin to be unreachable by ICE vehicles because of lack of gas stations, some irate ICE truck owners block the roads in protest. It doesn't happen now because petroleum i…

We have a long way to go before this happens. EVs are still a small percentage of cars, we haven’t solved long haul trucks and many already exist (and are expensive to replace), charging times prohibit many scenarios, rural areas are going to be hard pressed for chargers, and EVs don’t do well with cold which a majority of people experience with winter (not everyone is in coastal west coast).

Those things can all be solved with current technology. Batteries can be insulated and heated to optimal temperatures in cold climates. There are already some roads in Sweden and Germany where trucks can charge from overhead lines while moving. One of the roads in Sweden uses rails embedded in slots in the road surface, which can be used by cars as well.

The current fleet of cars will take a long time to replace, just because cars usually take a long time to wear out. I think we'll hit an inflection point soon, though, where it just doesn't make financial or practical sense to buy an ICE vehicle anymore.

Infrastructure is a pretty big hold-up at this point. Battery manufacturing is also a bottleneck, but at least lithium prices have dropped quite a lot. There's nothing stopping companies from building a lot more factories for LFP cells.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#194

Post by steveBK123 »

jackmott42 wrote: post #82
comte7092 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The norm is honestly that over 90% of the time, there are no issues. The thing is, when there is an issue, it’s at minimum a huge pain in the ass, and a complete nightmare at worst.

I have been to electrify america stations twice. One had a broken charger at once of the two super fast stalls. The second time I had to wait in line because it was full, and then when I got in the card reader wasn't working. I had to install the app to be able to pay and get electricity. It was very stressful as we thought we might be totally effed. Compared to Tesla, where you just pull up and plug in. No app, no c…

Yep, I switched from Tesla to BMW EV and am happy, but I don't road-trip much & can charge at home.

The problem with EA (and CCS networks in US in general) - 10x more likely to encounter a broken stall, and that stall will be at a station with 1/2 to 1/3 the stalls of a typical Tesla station, and if the whole station is out.. the next station is probably 2-3x as far as the next Tesla station would have been.

I find EA roadtrip planning to be more nerve wracking than Tesla was 5 years ago, and Tesla continues to build more stations at a rapid pace... so the lead is not closing.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#195

Post by dreamcompiler »

avalys wrote: post #96

Yes, electric cars are not viable unless you can charge at home. Meaning, in your garage / driveway. This means they're not that useful for people who live in apartments, and most people who live in a city like SF and park on the street(*). They're also not viable for road trips. Teslas can make it work but you still have to be willing for your trip to take 20 - 30% longer than it would with a gas car. For people who…

I do have a home charger, but I also take more road trips in the Tesla than I do in my ICE car because the Tesla is more comfortable. The Tesla is quieter, the seats are better, and with occasional use of autopilot I can stretch my arms and legs while driving. In addition, if I get sleepy I just pull over and take a nap in the back (Model Y here) in air-conditioned comfort. Can't do that in an ICE car without running the engine and generating CO.

Trips do take a bit longer but only because refueling typically takes 20 minutes rather than 10. It's a non-issue. There's no "make it work": The Tesla is an easier road trip car for me than my Audi, full stop.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#196

Post by steveBK123 »

comte7092 wrote: post #76
iknowstuff wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happy for you, but your experience is not the norm. https://twitter.com/RateYourCharge

The norm is honestly that over 90% of the time, there are no issues. The thing is, when there is an issue, it’s at minimum a huge pain in the ass, and a complete nightmare at worst.

Right, and to those who might think "hey 90% isn't so bad".

Imagine a light switch or sink faucet working "90% of the time".

Or the gas pump working "90% of the time", knowing that there are no other pumps in a 30 mile radius.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#198

Post by dreamcompiler »

alistairSH wrote: post #104
iknowstuff wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Model 3 can travel that distance without charging. There is also a supercharger right in the middle. https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=9daba0ea-ad2e-449...

Sure and that’s the best case. Just about anything else needs a multi-hour detour. Anyway, my only point was there are still some gaps, even in the relatively dense eastern seaboard. But not many.

Gaps do exist but you also mentioned camping. For me camping means a national or state park that has RV campsites. I plug in the car at such a site and wake up to a fully-charged car.

If you prefer more primitive camp sites this isn't an option but for some kinds of camping an EV is kind of ideal.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#199

Post by junofan »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #35
junofan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article states the federal government is installing 500,000 more plugs. Who is shrugging and giving up?

Well the author for one. "The government is finally getting round to the basics and will probably fuck it up" is not the attitude that put men on the moon.

The author is the editorial page editor at the local newspaper. You expect them to install more plugs? I don’t think that makes sense.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#200

Post by matthewdgreen »

noogle wrote: post #155
mkozlows wrote: post #121

In 1997, I bought a DVD player, and didn't have a VCR. You couldn't rent DVDs at Blockbuster, or indeed anywhere. Most movies weren't available on DVD, so you could watch only the few that had made it to the format (and had to purchase them for full price, at that). Being a DVD-only owner was limiting and annoying in a bunch of ways, even though the DVD experience was a lot better than the VCR experience. If in 1997,…

So the article seems to be right - wait with EVs until they improve. Why suffer the pains of an early adopter?

Because EVs are fun to drive.
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