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The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

arstechnica.com

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Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#191

Post by mzsmyk »

ACow_Adonis wrote: post #140
didibus wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Productivity is correlated with display size Where do you get this from? It seems to me if there was even a correlation, which I'm not sure, it would have more to do with resolution, since same resolution but bigger display doesn't actually show more information.

Its like how health is correlated with height. Its true, up to a point. you just have to ignore that at the extremes it's probably negatively correlated, and there's a significant non-zero possibility that at least in the short term, that possibility of negative correlation applies to the area VR is interested in as well.

>Its like how health is correlated with height.

It’s a popular myth propagated by American public. Funnily enough, in many European and Asian countries the opposite is deemed to be true. The truth is that there has never been any conclusive evidence one way or the other.

“The first evaluation of the impact of human size on longevity or life span in 1978, which was based on data for decreased groups of athletes and famous people in the USA, suggested that shorter, lighter men live longer than their taller, heavier counterparts. In 1990, a study of 1679 decreased men and women from the general American population supported these findings. In the present study data on the height, weight, and age at death of 373 men were obtained from records at the Veterans Administration Medical Center, San Diego, CA, USA. Men of height 175.3 cm or less lived an average of 4.95 years longer than those of height over 175.3 cm, while men of height 170.2 cm or less lived 7.46 years longer than those of at least 182.9 cm. An analysis by weight difference revealed a 7.72-year greater longevity for men of weight 63.6 kg or less compared with those of 90.9 kg or more. This corroborates earlier evidence and contradicts the popular notion that taller people are healthier.” [0]

[0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1600586/

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#192

Post by pharke »

puranjay wrote: post #186
pharke wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been steady improvements but it is still very early on in the development of the technology. Michael Abrash gave a talk at OC6[0] that centered around the idea that we are currently somewhere around the 1980s level when compared to the development of the PC. This is very much the beginning of the next major platform, comparatively few people have these systems and fewer still use them for more than just fu…

What would you recommend as the best first step to introduce someone to VR? I have an Oculus Quest but always felt that the hardware was insufficient. Would you recommend upgrading to a newer Oculus? And what would be your "safest" recommendation for a first VR game/experience?

If you already have an Oculus Quest you should try hooking it up to your PC using Airlink or the link cable first. This allows you to use it with Steam VR or the desktop Oculus apps. As long as your PC can handle VR, you'll get better graphics and access to more VR titles. If you use Airlink you'll still have a completely wireless headset, a trick to reducing latency and avoiding problems with traffic spikes on your network is to get a wifi card for your PC and set it up as a hotspot so you can connect your Quest directly to the PC without going through the router.

Some good first time experiences for people are Space Pirate Trainer if they like shooters or I Expect You To Die if they're more of a puzzle game type and Beat Saber if they like rhythm games. These games don't involve thumbstick based movement so they probably won't make you feel sick. If you want something that's really chill and is just kind of pretty to look at and walk through then Walkabout Mini Golf is pretty good, it's not the most exciting game but it does have multiplayer and it's pretty relaxing to play a round and just admire the work they put into the courses.

I've heard that setting up a fan so it's blowing on you while you're playing VR is a good way to prevent motion sickness. I don't really get very motion sick though so I haven't had to try it.

Some very good games that will definitely make you motion sick are Pavlov and Bone Works. You will feel queasy after playing these for the first few times, have some Gravol on hand just in case.

For better screen quality you can either use a Quest 2 or the Valve Index, you'll be tethered to the PC with the Index though which for me is a deal breaker.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#193

Post by plasticchris »

redisman wrote: post #178
null_shift wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fixed base station is a fundamentally different tradeoff for AR vs VR. Base station for AR would be detrimental, as you inherently want to explore and interact with the world around you. For most VR use cases that is not the case, and I can see the argument for the benefits of a base station (higher performance) outweighing the costs (limited movement).

Quest 2 is already a stand alone device so the base station requirement has already partially gone away

Quest 1 was standalone too.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#194

Post by Tagbert »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #122
didibus wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Productivity is correlated with display size Where do you get this from? It seems to me if there was even a correlation, which I'm not sure, it would have more to do with resolution, since same resolution but bigger display doesn't actually show more information.

High resolutions on small screen are very hard to read.

In the extreme, yes, and low resolution on large screens are also difficult to read. Viewing distance is also a factor. You always need to find a balance.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#195

Post by Tagbert »

thih9 wrote: post #108
Geee wrote: post #30

Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing. Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos wi…

> Productivity is correlated with display size Do you have a source? Anecdotal, I work without external displays and keep one window in focus, this helps my productivity.

And my work involves working with 2-4 ‘documents’ at once, analyzing, comparing, and summarizing them. My focus space is a little larger than one window.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#196

Post by Deritiod »

pharke wrote: post #168
Deritiod wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? I only know one person who used bis VR set extensively like for 2-3 month and then falled back to play egoshooters. 'a lot of people' != Not market relevant

That's cool but try jumping in to Pavlov or VRChat on a Friday night and then tell me there isn't a thriving community. It's not mainstream but it definitely isn't dead.

And how many active people can you find there in comparison to all apple iphone owner?

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#197

Post by unmole »

mzsmyk wrote: post #191
ACow_Adonis wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its like how health is correlated with height. Its true, up to a point. you just have to ignore that at the extremes it's probably negatively correlated, and there's a significant non-zero possibility that at least in the short term, that possibility of negative correlation applies to the area VR is interested in as well.

>Its like how health is correlated with height. It’s a popular myth propagated by American public. Funnily enough, in many European and Asian countries the opposite is deemed to be true. The truth is that there has never been any conclusive evidence one way or the other. “The first evaluation of the impact of human size on longevity or life span in 1978, which was based on data for decreased groups of athletes and fa…

> Funnily enough, in many European and Asian countries the opposite is deemed to be true.

I find a hard time believing this. Do you have a source?

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#198

Post by dvngnt_ »

pharke wrote: post #130
ttul wrote: post #89

Apple won’t release this product unless it is mind blowing. If Bloomberg’s reporting is true, then we should all be looking forward to a very cool demo at WWDC and an incredible product some time in 2023. Very few people predicted the iPhone accurately before its launch. And it’s reasonable to say the iPhone blew minds because Apple figured out multitouch AND reduced the latency of the interface to the extend require…

I'm not so sure. I think they will deliver something but I have a feeling that Meta is going to beat them to the punch as far as a productivity focused device is concerned. Meta might wind up with most of the market share while Apple trails them although I'm sure that most people who own a MacBook Pro will buy an Apple headset as well. I think this is more of a PC vs Mac situation than it is Android vs iPhone.

meta has the head start, but never bet against apple for revenue. VR is still new for casuals. if apple releases new hardware people will buy it and you'll see an explosion of devs creating apps for it.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#199

Post by puranjay »

pharke wrote: post #192
puranjay wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you recommend as the best first step to introduce someone to VR? I have an Oculus Quest but always felt that the hardware was insufficient. Would you recommend upgrading to a newer Oculus? And what would be your "safest" recommendation for a first VR game/experience?

If you already have an Oculus Quest you should try hooking it up to your PC using Airlink or the link cable first. This allows you to use it with Steam VR or the desktop Oculus apps. As long as your PC can handle VR, you'll get better graphics and access to more VR titles. If you use Airlink you'll still have a completely wireless headset, a trick to reducing latency and avoiding problems with traffic spikes on your…

Thank you for that detailed response. I’m going to give this another shot

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#200

Post by pharke »

Deritiod wrote: post #196
pharke wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's cool but try jumping in to Pavlov or VRChat on a Friday night and then tell me there isn't a thriving community. It's not mainstream but it definitely isn't dead.

And how many active people can you find there in comparison to all apple iphone owner?

You're trying to compare Apples to Oranges here, VR is still pretty early on in its development. Like Motorola DynaTAC[0] early. The iPhone of VR is probably still 2 decades out. We're still figuring out our UI metaphors and trying to reach a critical mass of competent users where it's possible to just "call" someone up in VR without first asking if they have a headset, asking if they know how X app works, figure out where to meet etc. It's like trying to get someone to email you in the early 90s.

Trying to compare this nascent technology to the iPhone is really disingenuous, there are probably a billion iPhone users worldwide. I'd struggle to count on one hand branded devices that have the same number of users.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_DynaTAC

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