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Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#191

Post by nickpp »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #180
nickpp wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minimum price for something just makes it illegal to sell if it happens to be worth less.

If your data is worth that little, which it is, then yeah let's make it illegal for companies to coerce people into giving it up with boilerplate contracts. The impact is too high and the benefit too low. This is not a slippery slope toward outlawing anything you could possibly sell.

I’ve been giving away "my data" for free stuff since the beginning of the Internet. Still waiting breathlessly for that high impact.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#192

Post by citizenpaul »

jdiez17 wrote: post #81

While I'm not sure if this change to Google Maps has been or will be widely rolled out, you may want to look into what GrapheneOS is working on with their Google Play compatibility layer [1]. It basically lets people use Google's services inside Android's standard app sandbox. That means they don't get access to privileged system APIs and can only access what the user chooses. It can also be used without a Google acc…

I wondered how long before google will have a reason for grapheneOS to suddenly stop being supoorted on the pixel. Now i know it will be soon and i get to tell everyone i told you so

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#193

Post by gerash »

Klonoar wrote: post #155
moritonal wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't believe I'm on this side of the debate, but at what point are we asking too much for free? Google provide Maps for free to an incredible accuracy and value. Unlike Apple, the user is welcome to use any other app, and yet chooses to use Google Maps. You could maybe argue that Google Maps is part of a package you bought the phone for, but realistically I think the solution is Google are just open about the use of…

>Unlike Apple, the user is welcome to use any other app, This part of your comment makes no sense to me - how do Apple users not have choice in maps apps...?

you can't set the default maps app in iOS. for example if you tap on an address in an iMessage you'll be directed to Apple maps

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#194

Post by ccouzens »

lakis wrote: post #104
daviddisco wrote: post #76

What is the value of sniffing the local ssids? As far as I know it is just to get a better and faster lock on location (sometimes GPS signals are weak) and therefore give better navigation. Does anyone know of some other purpose?

This has a dual purpose. From your perspective, that's true. It gives a better and faster lock on location. But at the same time, it associate the WIFI with a location with the accuracy of a GPS. So when you go into your laptop which has no GPS, the WiFi which you connect now has a real location association with it. Presto. Now Google can track your real location on your laptop and any other WiFi enabled device.

> So when you go into your laptop which has no GPS, the WiFi which you connect now has a real location association with it.

The phone can associate the SSID with a physical location. Maybe also a MAC address?

From a web browser on the laptop, they'll have the wi-fi network's IP address. They won't be told the SSID.

They'll have different pieces of information. I don't think it will help to work out your physical location from a laptop's web browser.

To associate a wi-fi network with a physical location that's helpful for tracking a laptop either: Your phone would need to authenticate to it and reach the internet to get the wi-fi network's IP address whilst on GPS Or: wi-fi networks you're not connected to need to be broadcasting their public MAC address- so far as I'm aware they don't

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#195

Post by michaelt »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

Wifi and cell tower location are much less precise than GPS. They are irrelevant for lane detection.

Where they are useful is when you are indoors. Or when a tracking business wants an excuse to send your location to their servers.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#196

Post by xg15 »

moritonal wrote: post #126
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

Can't believe I'm on this side of the debate, but at what point are we asking too much for free? Google provide Maps for free to an incredible accuracy and value. Unlike Apple, the user is welcome to use any other app, and yet chooses to use Google Maps. You could maybe argue that Google Maps is part of a package you bought the phone for, but realistically I think the solution is Google are just open about the use of…

> at what point are we asking too much for free?

But isn't this reasoning sort of paradox? Google is asking for something here in exchange of allowing to use the navigation feature. That makes it by definition not free - it's just, there is no straight-forward monetary price to it.

You can redefine "free" as "any price other than money" - and lots of people in tech seem to do exactly that - but then, if done honestly, you'd have to allow people to reason about non-monetary prices in the same way as about monetary ones: Compare them, decide about fairness, etc.

What scares me is that frequently, this isn't done - on the contrary: A developer can make its users jump through all kinds of hoops and demand whatever they want - and all is ok because it's "free"!

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#197

Post by pigbearpig »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

If we're at the point someone is jamming GPS, I guarantee lane specific directions is going to be about the last thing I care about.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#199

Post by zepto »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

Not correct. Wifi is not used to boost precision at speed. That is generally done via dead reckoning using the gyroscope and accelerometer. Wifi helps with bootstrapping a coarse location quickly before satellites can be acquired, and with indoor positioning.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#200

Post by apetresc »

nobody9999 wrote: post #112
dmje wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had one on our street called FuckOffAndGetYourOwn which I always liked

>We had one on our street called FuckOffAndGetYourOwn which I always liked There was an SSID in my building called "Free Palestine." A couple years later, someone created another one called "The Shin Bet."[0] I found that to be both disturbing and amusing. After the Muslim grad students on the third floor moved back to Australia, "Free Palestine" disappeared, and when the orthodox Jews moved out of the fourth floor,…

I don't understand your ironic reference :( What does "GranMal" have to do with that paper about wifi's effect on epileptic rats?
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