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Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

franck-leroy.medium.com

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Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#191

Post by chill1 »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #146
chill1 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding of the space contradicts each of your points. So without either of us providing citations, both of our opinions are pretty useless to the casual reader. But I will add some thoughts here. > The [humongous] energy wastage of the network should be the biggest cause of concern, but most proponents shoo it away by buzzwords like lightning network etc. Lightning Network is a second layer payment network t…

> My understanding of the space contradicts each of your points. I am a casual observer and have no investment in BTC and the comments are what I feel based on the news that reaches me. For me the most critical aspect is the energy waste, and the lack of regulation. I know crypto-anarchists distrust the govt, but if I've to choose between the r/WSB like extreme evangelism (HODL!) and Fed, I would chose the later safe…

> I would love to be proven wrong and learn something new about the sector that increases my confidence.

That's great. Having an open mind is a good thing. What areas are you specifically interested in? The industry is vast with deep niches and history - mining, exchanges (online/offline/p2p), scripting ("programmable money"), private key security (software/hardware/multi-sig), BIPs/forks/governance, ATMs, end-user apps, scams and shills, cypherpunk history and lore, and so on.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#192

Post by myWindoonn »

inter_netuser wrote: post #124
seaman1921 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic - assuming anyone who doesn't hold BTC is an idiot. Followed by a 'Have fun staying poor' to stir some social anxiety and FOMO. Unfortunately a lot of people keep falling for such statements and the price keeps going up - I have friends buying loads of dogecoin over the past week who told me they have literally no idea what crypto or doge is - but they know for sure that the prices are going to go up over the…

You are exactly correct, everyone who ignores does so at their own cost. Close to one _trillion_ in foregone profits at the moment. You think this is a fad?

I think that it is a target. And apparently so does the original article's author.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#193

Post by ForHackernews »

inter_netuser wrote: post #147
Melting_Harps wrote: post #27

No joke, I want to apeal to the Greta Thunberg type activists/followers and Extinction Rebellion crowds; so, if Franck Leroy wants to have a chat (your misguided attack is absurd and BTC just hit another ATH in the time you wrote that) I extend a friendly open-invitation to discuss how as an environmentalist myself with a background in sustainable Ag, farmers rights, farm to table, and anti nuclear activism we can ge…

Seems too early still. It's amazing how nobody on this board understands it.

Maybe people understand and just aren't buying what you're selling. Bitcoin is more than 10 years old.

Bitcoin advocates are fond of comparing BTC to WWW, but at the equivalent point in the web's development we had Yahoo, eBay, Paypal, Google, Facebook, Amazon...

The only "killer app" of bitcoin is HODL speculation.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#194

Post by tomComb »

herewegoagain2 wrote: post #95
jonhendry18 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What the author suggests would be similar to saying," No, because driving has a legitimate purpose.

In many cases it doesn't.

Yeah, and we should try (eg. the correct incentives) to reduce driving that has no purpose or value.

Just because it exists doesn't make it a good thing in the current circumstances.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#195

Post by tomComb »

inter_netuser wrote: post #134
heckerhut wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it’s clearly headed there. Unlike bitcoin, Ethereum has sufficient resemblance of governance to actually pull it off.

why use a blockchain if you want to rely on governance? Just use USD.

Very different governance. Not all governance is bad unless you are a hardcore anarchist.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#197

Post by cycomanic »

inter_netuser wrote: post #143
jonhendry18 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Calling out the BTC network on its energetic inefficiency completely misses the point that the work put into the network is exactly the scarce digital asset, and hence the store of value." That's no excuse for the obscene waste of resources.

It's much cheaper than maintenance of a nuclear arsenal to enforce the USD reserve status around the globe. What's the CO2 footprint of standing armies around the world? Have you tried cancelling that?

So I just looked this up the 2017 footprint of the US army which I think accounts for more than half the worldwide military budget around the world was ~60 M tonnes. The numbers for bitcoin vary between 20 M and 60M per year (and are increasing). So both bitcoin and the US military are on the same order of magnitude.

Now regarding you imply that we should worry more about the emissions from armies than bitcoin, why is that an either or question? Yes we should worry about both wastes, but they are on the same order of magnitude. Moreover there is no evidence that bitcoin does reduce military spending or emissions, so again not making this an either or question.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#198

Post by shawnz »

inter_netuser wrote: post #133
thepete2 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just use proof of stake and get it of all the useless nonce-calculations?

because all that will do is just entrench the existing banking oligopoly. proof of work is the only thing that maintains unforgeable costliness. Every proof of stake system eventually centralized and failed.

What about proof-of-space?

And of course proof-of-work isn't necessarily immune to wealth centralization either.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#199

Post by subsection1h »

joshfraser wrote: post #84

Total nonsense, but I'll let Antonopoulos respond: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvFqEofdAZ0

That video includes a lot of whataboutisms (e.g., Christmas lights) and speculation (e.g., Bitcoin mining will fund the construction of green power plants). I wouldn't call it total nonsense though. But I suppose I might be tempted to do so if I were the founder of, oh lets say, a decentralized e-commerce platform for Christmas lights.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#200

Post by can16358p »

tomComb wrote: post #196
can16358p wrote: post #24

How did this waste of time article even get popular on HN? I just want to assume that it's got popular so that it can be ditched.

The article may be bad, but the ideas are worth debating.

Sure, there is some insight. But the general hatred-oriented language of the article doesn't allow to think in a constructive manner, at least for me.
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