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Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

franck-leroy.medium.com

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Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#91

Post by herewegoagain2 »

heckerhut wrote: post #35

Idea: Change BTC protocol to include a new field in coinbase transactions documenting the CO2 emissions of each block. Introduce an uncle block reward like ETH. Miners agree to audits of their reports. Make block reward dependent on carbon emissions. Use rest for offset programs.

Interesting idea, but how exactly would you validate the CO2 emissions? If somebody mines a block and claims it only consumed x of CO2, how do you know it is true?

What seems possible is to check what miners mined a block, and externally verify their footprint. But I don't think there is a decentralized way to do it. An entity certifying "green miners" would be a centralized authority.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#92

Post by comboy »

azernik wrote: post #46
comboy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do need digital gold to be able to have market of cryptocurrencies that are actually in use and not just being speculated on with fiat. Sidechains enable that. The whole waste argument is ridiculous on so many levels. I imagine these people shouting at people houses - turn off that AC! You are wasting energy for which you have paid! We could have made so many aluminum cans with that! And if you say that sure, let'…

Cutting down A/C usage is , in fact, an important climate change mitigation.

Climate change doesn't care if I use my 1kWh for gaming on a console, using dryer, A/C or computing digits of pi which have already been computed because I wanted to do it on my super inefficient old computer.

There are many ways to mitigate climate change but I don't think that telling people what should they do with electricity is the way to go. Perhaps focus more on how the energy gets produced, not how it is consumed.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#93

Post by jonhendry18 »

castratikron wrote: post #25

The author misses the point. The root of the problem is that electricity is not carbon free. What the electricity is used for is irrelevant. What the author suggests would be similar to saying, "let's stop climate change by minimizing our driving instead of transitioning to electric transport."

"What the author suggests would be similar to saying,"

No, because driving has a legitimate purpose.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#94

Post by herewegoagain2 »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #14
Dudideloo wrote: post #4

> If a group of hackers (real or fake) announced an impending attack, the price of Bitcoin would likely collapse. Look further: What would happen after the attacks failed, when not even the green hackers can do anything to their network ? Nobody can currently shut it down, that's also why it is valuable.

There's literally an internet requirement for it, to use it. Also, using it locally has a delay of several days for being "up to date". So in practise, security for most people is dependant on 3rd parties.

So you propose shutting down the internet to end Bitcoin?

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#95

Post by herewegoagain2 »

jonhendry18 wrote: post #93
castratikron wrote: post #25

The author misses the point. The root of the problem is that electricity is not carbon free. What the electricity is used for is irrelevant. What the author suggests would be similar to saying, "let's stop climate change by minimizing our driving instead of transitioning to electric transport."

"What the author suggests would be similar to saying," No, because driving has a legitimate purpose.

In many cases it doesn't.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#97

Post by LittlePeter »

zed88 wrote: post #32

The energy in mining is not being wasted, it's being converted into something of perceived value. The real waste of energy, one could argue is pornography, which hogs around 30% of the internet, with little value output. Imagine replacing those servers for something more productive for humanity as a whole.

Your argument is not even an argument, it's just: "In my opinion Bitcoin has value and porn does not".

For the same reason Bitcoin has value, you could argue porn has value.

At the very basic level, if someone is paying for it, who are you to decide it has no value to that person?

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#98

Post by jonhendry18 »

shawnz wrote: post #38
ForHackernews wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deliberately making bitcoin worse would incentivize users to switch to alternatives like Libra or Ethereum (which claims to be moving to proof-of-stake).

Making Bitcoin deliberately worse would also hinder the development of those future improvements in efficiency, perhaps actually leading to proof-of-work systems being around for even longer.

Er, no it wouldn't?

You don't need Bitcoin around to do that.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#99

Post by xerxespoy »

Should probably destroy all technology that uses energy for the same reason, using the same methodology. Ie, ignore every conceivable benefit and focus only on energy usage as the singular and all-pervasive critical factor.

I guess humans even without technology might use energy too, simply by existing, so we should probably attack and end us as well.

This is surely humanity's only sensible path to a sustainable future, and one that everyone can and must get on board with. Right?

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#100

Post by primitivesuave »

tsimionescu wrote: post #50
primitivesuave wrote: post #33

I see Bitcoin like a 21st century Apollo project. While I agree the resources appear wasted, they are supporting a revolutionary concept that holds tremendous potential to change the way the world works. Also, consider the scale of resources used by the existing financial system, with its thousands of buildings staffed by millions of people who use energy to come into work every day to keep the whole centralized syst…

I think this is a very bad comparison, for several reasons. 1. With the Apollo missions, the money being put into the project was going into research and development, so there was at least some expectation of getting new science and technology out of it. With Bitcoin,nthe money put in is going into speculation or mining, which only fuels the network. There is no reason to expect new technologies to come out of this,…

You make a very compelling argument, especially #1 that there can't be an expectation of any new technology or science to come out of money spent on speculation or mining. Equivalently, any progress in blockchain technology doesn't require the existence of the Bitcoin network to be implemented.

I now see some holes in my Apollo analogy (also government vs individual spending). I am lucky there is always someone on HN who will make a better point :)

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