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Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

oregonlive.com

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Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#191

Post by ThrowMeDown01 »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #74
ken wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think anyone should be able to call themselves "physicians" or "lawyers" or "police", as those are English words that predate their professional associations?

The problem is that there are a small, specialized clique of Engineers who have professional certification, and a huge population of engineers who don't have this certification and are not required to have it. The boundary between the two groups is fuzzy and a bit contentious, with each side seeking to expand their domain. There's no such confusion when it comes to the other professions listed, no huge gray area wher…

> here everyone calls you a physician even though you only work with animals

Just an aside, but that is a gigantic undersell of veterinarians. The difficulties of becoming one aside, just seeing that "humans-only" doctors only work on one kind of ape, compared to the many very different kinds of life forms a veterinarian has to deal with (of course they specialize too), I don't understand why one would think a veterinarian would deserve the word "only".

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#192

Post by grecy »

eigenvector wrote: post #32

As a licensed professional engineer, I find the effort exerted by various state and provincial licensing bodies to regulate the use of the term 'engineer' a bit tiresome. Yes, it's important to regulate the practice of engineering, but unlike some other types of professionals engineers rarely if ever offer their services to Joe Public. It's not like we have guys putting up billboards on the side of the highway advert…

I studied a degree called "Software Engineering" and am acredited by the Australian Institute of Engineers (the first, and AFAIK, only, Software degree that is certified).

Working in Canada where my degree was not certified, all the PEng people would get seriously uptight if I even said "I studied Engineering" or "I have a bachelor of Engineering".

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#193

Post by pbhjpbhj »

gambiting wrote: post #75
darpa_escapee wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone who calls themselves a doctor or a lawyer goes on TV and gives medical or legal advice, that can cause harm and sets a bad precedent.

Sure. Still shouldn't be illegal. There's plenty of TV stations that make a living giving bad, wrong or plainly malicious advice(can think of quite a few) and it's not illegal.

But one way to quickly assess advice is by the person's credentials who is delivering it -- a doctor or lawyer telling you something about medicine/law warrants some degree of trust, but one may assume when they speak on other subjects that they've taken a more rigorous approach than your average person.

If your TV had Dr Gambiting giving medical advice is carries more credence.

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#194

Post by killaken2000 »

abduhl wrote: post #158
4thaccount wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A professional engineer has to pass a pretty rigorous test that takes every bit of 8 hours for most folks. I studied for hundreds of hours for mine (not kidding) and it took me two tries to pass. I know great engineers who are trying for the sixth time. Getting an engineering degree is really hard at most colleges. Passing the Fundamentals of Engineering exam is also challenging, but a joke compared to the P.E. exam.…

Let's not oversell the PE or the FE: I took both drunk and completed them in under 3 hours each. The true point of being a professional engineer is that you've satisfied the MINIMUM requirements to be licensed and, therefore, you are licensed by the state to sign off on documents within what you consider your expertise. It relies on you to make that determination with the understanding that you should know better, re…

The whole 8 hour exam in under 3 hours?

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#195

Post by killaken2000 »

MRD85 wrote: post #190
chrisbennet wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PE is so “popular” that they discontinued the test for it. https://ncees.org/ncees-discontinuing-pe-software-engineerin...

Likely because it's not a requirement for anything. Is PE required for anything in the US?

PE is required in the US but the article is specifically talking about the software engineering PE.

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#196

Post by acct1771 »

13of40 wrote: post #169
wongarsu wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oregon may be the only game in town, but they are not the only game in the country. A bad reputation can lead to talent drain, less investment and fewer companies moving there.

The Oregon government doesn't seem to have any problem with Intel advertising "Software Engineer" positions on LinkedIn.

That's...ironically the distinction made in the case(s).

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#197

Post by pgeorgi »

loeg wrote: post #102
Waterluvian wrote: post #2

This is interesting to me because in Ontario where I reside, I cannot call myself an engineer. The professional engineering association is ruthless in enforcing it. But my employer is in Massachusetts, where I can be called an engineer. So I'm not sure if my business cards can get me in trouble here.

Maybe you can call yourself a Software Physician instead ;-).

Computer Therapist

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#199

Post by merijnv »

rootusrootus wrote: post #153
SamReidHughes wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting an MS is completely unimpressive, isn't it? I've read other people such as Google recruiters mention it as a negative signal, in terms of likelihood to pass the interview process.

Well, as someone pursuing their masters in CS, I can't argue that it is not too impressive. I would like to know before I finish if it is actually a negative signal, though ;-). I'm at the point in my career where it won't make a bit of difference, but I would still figure on it being a mild positive if I were going into the hiring process through the front door. Maybe it will refresh my memory on algorithms enough t…

> I would like to know before I finish if it is actually a negative signal, though ;-)

Like all things "It Depends (TM)", I wouldn't worry about it. Since the introduction of the bachelor/master system here more people have stopped after getting their bachelor, but the "default" in much of continental Europe for technical degrees (as far as I can tell) is still to finish a master.

All my friends and colleagues with masters and PhDs in CS seem to have 0 issue finding jobs or getting contacted by Google/Facebook/Amazon recruiters. So worrying about it being a negative signal seems like a waste of time.

Re: Federal judge finds state law governing who is an engineer violates free speech

#200

Post by lrem »

4thaccount wrote: post #144
gerdesj wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As a licensed professional engineer, I ..." He is an engineer as far as I am concerned (and time served as well as his quali): Jarlstrom, who holds a bachelors of science degree in engineering from Sweden

A professional engineer has to pass a pretty rigorous test that takes every bit of 8 hours for most folks. I studied for hundreds of hours for mine (not kidding) and it took me two tries to pass. I know great engineers who are trying for the sixth time. Getting an engineering degree is really hard at most colleges. Passing the Fundamentals of Engineering exam is also challenging, but a joke compared to the P.E. exam.…

I have an engineering degree (masters level), but most places don't allow me to call myself an "engineer". I also have a PhD and same stands for "doctor". Oh well...
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