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Uber’s Anthony Levandowski out as Advanced Technologies lead amid legal fight

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Re: Uber’s Anthony Levandowski out as Advanced Technologies lead amid legal fight

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber has requested that Larry Page be deposed and they have questions they want to ask him under oath. That's fact, not hearsay. They clearly have questions the truth of which will weaken Waymo's position. Lawyers don't ask questions they don't already know the answer to. The only unknown is if Larry will lie under oath or be able to skillfully answer in a way that doesn't hurt Waymo's position.

Or Larry simply tells the truth and doesn't hurt Waymo's position. The bias is dripping off your lips.

Again, lawyers don't ask questions that they don't already know the answer to. They wouldn't ask to depose him if they didn't think the answers would help their position. This is lawyering 101 level obviousness.

Re: Uber’s Anthony Levandowski out as Advanced Technologies lead amid legal fight

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Larry simply tells the truth and doesn't hurt Waymo's position. The bias is dripping off your lips.

Again, lawyers don't ask questions that they don't already know the answer to. They wouldn't ask to depose him if they didn't think the answers would help their position. This is lawyering 101 level obviousness.

[deleted]

Re: Uber’s Anthony Levandowski out as Advanced Technologies lead amid legal fight

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but he was the team leader. I was part of a team that built autonomous vehicles too, but the fact that there were others involved doesn't stop me writing "built an autonomous vehicle" on my CV.

There was no team without him, period.

on the other hand there was no stolen intellectual property without him either.

Re: Uber’s Anthony Levandowski out as Advanced Technologies lead amid legal fight

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there was a joke posting on an internal alias that showed the internal /etc/aliases file for Google which had the mailing list going to '|/usr/bin/no'[1] :) I would be interested to know if anyone still there had ever tried that and gotten a yes answer. The three times I used the process it was always denied. [1] To understand the meta-joke there is actually a /usr/bin/yes program but in the standard distribution the…

Calling /usr/bin/yes no will yield you a working "no" program :).

If by working you mean an infinite stream of "no"'s. Can google's email servers handle that, or do they need to bring back Google Wave to deliver an infinite stream of "no"'s in realtime, one keypress at a time? Or can they map/reduce an infinite stream of "no"'s into a single "no"?

Re: Uber’s Anthony Levandowski out as Advanced Technologies lead amid legal fight

#195
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression from working at Google was that lack of respect for property is unfortunately part of Google's culture. I've met this mindset on many occasions, so this whole lawsuit, as well as the fact that Levandowski was allowed to rise high at the company, doesn't surprise me a bit. It's just that in this case it was one of their own engineers using it against them, for a change.

I would love to hear more about this, including any specific examples if you can give them.

- When they acquired my little project (back in 2008) my co-founder and I were told point blank that if we didn't sell to them at a price of their choosing they would just outright copy our product and steal our ideas and do it themselves and we'd get nothing. I don't even think they meant it as much as it was a divide-and-conquer negotiation tactic (which unfortunately worked since my co-founder started to panic after that point and turn against me in the following discussions). We eventually sold (at a low price, given the circumstances) but it kind of set the tone for what would follow. Great way to completely sink an acquisition right from the beginning btw.

- Soon after I started I gave a little demo of what I'd been working on before the acquisition as a side/thesis project. A team related to the one I was working in really liked it and wanted to have it and start a project with it. I was quite honored -- until I found out that the expectation was that I provide everything (code and other resources) for free, since they'd already acquired "my talent", and that would extend even to unrelated stuff that I did before the acquisition (that was literally their argument). It took me two years of explaining and negotiation until they finally paid a modest price for it.

- That not being enough I soon found out that extracting IP from fresh graduates / PhDs is actually quite common at Google. I know many examples where graduates / PhDs were asked to put in code and documentation of their prior/thesis work free of charge. Frankly I think that a lot of fresh graduates don't even realize at that point that they are being screwed out of something that is rightfully theirs (or the universitiy's -- depending on how their contracts were set up).

- The worst came out of people when the perf cycle came up. I've seen it over and over that engineers claimed they "put feature X into Y" when in reality feature X was implemented by another engineer and all they did was contribute some wiring code. Worst of all those kind of tricks not only didn't get caught, but the engineers in question often got rewarded for it.

- And of course the time Google started copying books and put them online for free without asking authors for permission or when they started leeching content off of websites and putting it next to their own ads (see [1]) that's not quite the display of the finest of manners either.

The kicker is that while all these things happened day in day out like it was no big deal most people in the company seemed to be convinced that Google operated on higher ethical standards than other companies. Permanently feeding your employees with "don't be evil" or "do the Googley thing" phrases must have made them think that that was actually the case I guess.

Needless to say I quit on the first day that my "golden handcuffs" came off and never looked back.

[1] https://theoutline.com/post/1399/how-google-ate-celebritynet...

Re: Uber’s Anthony Levandowski out as Advanced Technologies lead amid legal fight

#196

So all this drama is kinda pointless. I mentioned in another thread that SV culture actively encourages this kind of behavior and ultimately I think folks buy into the system because everyone deep down thinks they're gonna become a millionaire this way. I'm only watching because of morbid curiosity and really I have no stake in the outcome whatever it may be. Both companies are equally bad in my opinion and they are…

>I mentioned in another thread that SV culture actively encourages

That's not true at all. I know the "Pirate" idea is mythologized and tied to the development of the Mac, but even then, Apple actually had a deal with Xerox.

>Both companies are equally bad in my opinion and they are making things more and more unsustainable.

I wouldn't say that. I would say it's a typical dispute. We have courts to settle these kinds of disputes.

>The modern technology ecosystem feels very unhealthy in general.

I wouldn't go that far. Given the pace of change, it's actually pretty solid.

Re: Uber’s Anthony Levandowski out as Advanced Technologies lead amid legal fight

#197

So all this drama is kinda pointless. I mentioned in another thread that SV culture actively encourages this kind of behavior and ultimately I think folks buy into the system because everyone deep down thinks they're gonna become a millionaire this way. I'm only watching because of morbid curiosity and really I have no stake in the outcome whatever it may be. Both companies are equally bad in my opinion and they are…

> folks buy into the system because everyone deep down thinks they're gonna become a millionaire this way

Such a perfect summary of why many of the flawed practices of our day persist.

Re: Uber’s Anthony Levandowski out as Advanced Technologies lead amid legal fight

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Larry simply tells the truth and doesn't hurt Waymo's position. The bias is dripping off your lips.

Again, lawyers don't ask questions that they don't already know the answer to. They wouldn't ask to depose him if they didn't think the answers would help their position. This is lawyering 101 level obviousness.

So if Uber were simply in the wrong, their lawyers would not ask any questions at all?

Re: Uber’s Anthony Levandowski out as Advanced Technologies lead amid legal fight

#199
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression from working at Google was that lack of respect for property is unfortunately part of Google's culture. I've met this mindset on many occasions, so this whole lawsuit, as well as the fact that Levandowski was allowed to rise high at the company, doesn't surprise me a bit. It's just that in this case it was one of their own engineers using it against them, for a change.

And when you say "property", you mean "intellectual property", right? Those are some pretty different things, you know ;-)

Code, content, project assets, documentation, etc...

Re: Uber’s Anthony Levandowski out as Advanced Technologies lead amid legal fight

#200

Worth remembering that Google paid this guy over $120 Million in compensation. He is a tech "1%"er, which really is saying a lot. That is hedge fund money. I'm not certain, but I think the average engineer would feel more loyalty to a company that has given them multi-generational wealth. I'm all for engineers getting paid, but in this case the guy didn't even have to do what most wealthy engineers do: deliver an act…

I really don't understand how people get greedy after earning that much money. Is it just the high/excitement the comes from it? Seems like money would no longer be motivating.

Maybe he wants to self-fund his next big idea?
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