Mass shootings are a small price to pay for real freedom. Imagine the type of societies that could evolve in Russia/China/etc... if the population was heavily armed. Corruption/Cronyism? Less likely since there is a real chance you might be shot by an unhappy citizen.
Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do
191–200 of 438 posts
Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am quite pro-gun, and terrorism doesn't even register on the reasons why. I believe the same could be said of most everyone I know in that community. It's not about fear; it's primarily about a worldview that centers on individuality and distrust of government.
I've never understood this argument. The day you pull a gun on "government" is the day you will be killed on the spot, or sentenced to death row, or sent to life in prison with no chance of parole. You will be permanently removed from your comfortable life, and whomever takes that life away from you will face no penalty for doing so. So you own a handgun? The government will have assault rifles. Oh, you own an assaul…
No one is imagining turning into Rambo and overthrowing their local sheriff. The idea is that there are limits to how far the American people can be pushed before we - as a group - simply refuse to go along anymore.
This stems directly from American history. The Constitution was written in a time when things like the Boston Massacre, Bunker Hill, and Col. Parker's stand in Concord and Lexington were fresh in the collective consciousness.
> Perhaps a little rational thought is required to comprehend that a document written ~227 years ago is probably out of date with modern reality when it comes to firearms.
I don't believe it is - and there are millions of others who agree with me. We're armed to the teeth, so good luck changing it. That's the whole point :)
> It's a combination of amusing, frustrating, and bewildering to witness a large number of Americans' behaviour whenever this topic resurfaces. Honestly, most of the rest of the world out here just can't understand how you people are so goddamn self-indoctrinated into keeping your guns. There is no reasoning that I can apply to even begin to validate the concept that guns in the hands of citizens is a good thing.
I understand that. Sitting here in Virginia, I cannot fathom how the Brits gave up their weapons without a fight less than a generation after they were literally asking the American public to donate firearms in preparation of a German invasion.
That's OK though, because I don't live under their rule. I'm happy to share my perspective and learn about theirs. I hold no ill will against people on the other side of an ocean that don't understand my political views.
Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am quite pro-gun, and terrorism doesn't even register on the reasons why. I believe the same could be said of most everyone I know in that community. It's not about fear; it's primarily about a worldview that centers on individuality and distrust of government.
I've never understood this argument. The day you pull a gun on "government" is the day you will be killed on the spot, or sentenced to death row, or sent to life in prison with no chance of parole. You will be permanently removed from your comfortable life, and whomever takes that life away from you will face no penalty for doing so. So you own a handgun? The government will have assault rifles. Oh, you own an assaul…
Someone needs to read their history.
Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do
#194You have to remember only law abiding citizens in the US follow the gun laws. If a bad guy breaks into your house in the middle of the night, the police response time is not enough to save you and your family. If you want to protect your young child in this case, its better to lawfully own a gun and have proper training on how to use it.
You're presuming that the person breaking in to your house at night wants to harm you. If they're breaking in at night they probably want to steal your stuff without you encountering them. So the best course of action is probably to stay in your bedroom, stay quiet, and call the police. Pull out your gun and that bad guy probably also has one and you've put your own life in danger and made a non-violent situation life threatening.
Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
And part of the reason why cops are armed to the teeth is because the citizens are. It would require real total mutual disarmament of citizens and police to change anything in the USA. So I don't see it changing any time soon.
>And part of the reason why cops are armed to the teeth is because the citizens are. The vast majority of deaths from firearms result from handguns not AR15s. You dont have criminals in Level 4 hard plates roaming around down town LA with shoulder fired rockets.
Going after scary 'military assault' guns is an easier political sell than tackling handguns.
The majority of US gun murder is one guy with a handgun shooting another person, which won't ever make national headlines
Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
Terribly cherry-picked charts there. The UK had a spike in homicides in 2003, so what? The overall trend is clearly downwards. The 2009 firearm homicide rate is less than half the avg. rate for the 90's and I believe it has only gone down further since (cherry picked date ranges). Ireland had an increase in homicides following gun bans in the 70's? And it was the gun ban that caused it, not the Troubles? Likewise Jam…
Just google "gun crime rates in the UK". All the stats I've seen, and what I've been lead to believe in the news, is that gun crime rates have dramatically increased since the handgun ban (and illegal gun ownership has also increased). That's not to imply cause and effect, but I don't see any evidence that the handgun ban did anything to curb gun crime. Licensing rules were already very stringent at the time - you ju…
what I've been lead to believe in the news
I think I found the problem.
Dunblane was a freak incident in the UK, but would be a regular occurence in the US. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/02/mass-shooting...
The mass shooting phenomenon seems to be a side effect of US culture's relationship with violence, and especially "righteous" violence.
Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
Okay, try this: far, far more people die in the US in car accidents than are shot. More people die because of DUIs than because of guns. Yet guns are endlessly highlighted as a major problem and the talk is constantly about making it harder to attain them and yet few people are ranting on about the dangers of automobile or licquor. Indeed, the original article dismisses drunk teenagers as a non-threat. Drunk teenager…
IIRC US road deaths and shooting deaths are about even (around 30k each), although the gun figure includes suicides
You seem to be right about that. Thanks.
Traffic fatalities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_i...
Gun fatalities: http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states
Suicides do appear to be about 2/3 of the gun fatalities.
Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was a lot of discussion at the time, and my recollection is he was already known to mental health services. The Sun et al had him painted as a rabid survivalist of course. Wiki seems to say it was retrospective diagnosis, so I'm not sure... I can understand wanting to collect, or at least try, different types, but who in the world needs an assault rifle?
Try different types of guns for what? The only primary purpose of a gun is to inflict a lot of damage to something. The Sun, is a terrible, terrible source of 'news'; http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3062107/Getting-hi... (you can safely ignore any of the red tops in the UK) I can understand the deep interest in guns, for instance I thoroughly enjoy FPS russia. But I do not think as a society we can manage t…
> But I do not think as a society we can manage the general public having guns, Australia and the UK are a very good example of how new laws have come into place
There are numerous other developed/OECD countries with "high" rates of firearms ownership and use that do not have the same rate of violence seen in the US. Not to mention the millions of responsible gun owners who safely use firearms for hunting, sport, and self protection. Violent crime with firearms still occurs in both the UK and Australia - both countries have a seedy underbelly that occasionally spills over (e.g. the gang related shooting in Sydney yesterday or the drive by shooting in Brixton last month). Gun control is a spectrum - there are other other countries that have sensible gun control measures that help to limit violent crime without penalizing responsible gun owners. Personally I have no issue with sensible control measures, but I do wish society would also address many of the other associated issues (access to mental health services, inequality/poverty, the war on drugs).
Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
> unless we transform our democracy into a totalitarian state The irony is that in totalitarian states terrorism increases, not decreases. Because then even more people have a reason to hate their own totalitarian leaders.
I am not sure that's true. Crime under totalitarian regimes is usually very low, because the level of control and delation makes it almost impossible to get away with it.
I would say that crime is reported very low, as a lot of trouble makers usually "disappear".
Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am quite pro-gun, and terrorism doesn't even register on the reasons why. I believe the same could be said of most everyone I know in that community. It's not about fear; it's primarily about a worldview that centers on individuality and distrust of government.
>It's not about fear; it's primarily about a worldview that centers on individuality and distrust of government. Sounds like fear to me.
Distrust is not the same thing as fear.
I distrust my toddler, because she is incapable of making rational choices. I'm not going to let her walk across a parking lot by herself.
I distrust a venomous snake for the same reasons. I'm also extremely cautious around them, because they can cause pain or death if mishandled. That doesn't mean I'm afraid of them.