Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights • Hacker News Board

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#191

Post by tacticus » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 12:49 AM UTC

reitanqild wrote: post #97

usaphp wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that one company who gets majority of revenue from hardware I hope you are not referring to Apple, because compared to other companies , iPhones and iPads are the one who can run current software on older devices with almost no issues. Samsung and other android manufacturers on the other hand have not supported older devices at all until recently (and even now not as good as Apple does). My first gen iPad still run…

Don't forget Sony. They are pretty reliable about updating their Z-series. Full disclosure: have a Z3, mostly for this and because it was waterproof. The screen is now partially detached in the top after less than one year of use which annoys me but I hope to get it resolved under warranty.

they also decide to disable normal features because fuck you.

android auto does not work on the z3 compacts at all because of their decision to remove the USB charge mode from the phones.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#192

Post by rblatz » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 12:50 AM UTC

bborud wrote: post #180

IshKebab wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been involved in a couple of these discussions, I'd say it is more like "Shouldn't we control this? Are other people doing stuff with our products that we don't control? That's bad isn't it? Let's stop them." I.e. it's more about paranoid control than actual reasons .

Actually, earlier today I wrote some MCU code to control my HUE lights, and I figured "hey, why not build a controller to make my christmas lights controlled by the HUE hub". Guess this news answers that. Seen together with the Phillips Hue bulbs I have being noisy as hell, hue just became a lot less interesting. I hope there will be an open source system and manufacturers whose bulbs can easily be integrated. Hopefu…

I've got Phillips Hue bulbs, multiple zigbee GE bulbs that work (well until I update) with hue, multiple z wave switches, a nest. I've been able to control all of it using OpenHab running on a raspberry pi that us a z-stick zwave radio attached. OpenHab is hard to get running but immensely powerful. Especially with the Astro binding, you could for example determine when the sun is shining through a window and close the blinds for each window as direct sun starts shining through it. OpenHab 2 is in development and is supposed to be a lot more user friendly.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#193

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 12:52 AM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #49

gregmac wrote: post #22

This is the Philips controller software (app) that is refusing to talk to or control 3rd party light bulbs. I don't really see this as being a problem. It's not the nicest thing, perhaps, but neither is 3rd party companies building bulbs (presumably by ripping off the design and protocol of Philip's bulbs), and then relying on Philips to build the software so they can actually be used. In other words, Philips is refu…

I wouldn't describe 3rd parties as "ripping off the design and protocol" when bulb hub communication is done using the ZigBee Light Link protocol. Philips didn't develop that. Standard here: http://www.zigbee.org/?wpdmdl=2132 [pdf warning] And no, lights from other manufacturers (I have several from GE) no longer work via the Hue app or any of the 3rd party alternatives. I made the mistake of accepting Hue's "update…

[deleted]

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#194

Post by wlesieutre » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 12:57 AM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #144

mbesto wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is 100% spot on. I have been in meetings just like this in a past life.

While this may happen in other instances, Zigbee Light Link products like these are 100% targeted at consumer markets. If commercial/industrial applications are doing a ZigBee controlled building, they're doing it with ZigBee Building Automation. (alternately, EnOcean, Enlighted, etc. which also target commercial markets with wireless lighting controls) Light Link - "Smart, easy-to-use lighting control designed for c…

I should also point out that Philips owns Color Kinetics, the biggest player in commercial RGB LED lighting. It's very much not a market they need to break into.

http://www.colorkinetics.com/

Much to the rest of the industry's chagrin, CK holds a couple of fundamental patents on colored lighting by mixing red, green, and blue. Not that color mixing or PWM were new in 1997, but I guess they smushed together enough ideas that the patent office thought it was novel.

As far as I know, they do have some competitors (Lumenpulse comes to mind) but aren't under any significant threats in that market because every competitor pays them royalties anyway.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#195

Post by spdustin » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 1:06 AM UTC

I have three neighbors, all of whom are non-technical, that use Hue lights in their home. I asked them if they used any other "smart bulbs" with their Hue bridge. The universal reply, averaged out to a representative quote:

"I didn't even think that was a thing, I only use Hue bulbs with the Hue bridge."

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#196

Post by ohitsdom » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 1:09 AM UTC

JshWright wrote: post #8

rythie wrote: post #6

Surely with the Pi Zero selling at $5 there has got to be way to do this without Philip's locked in, expensive system?

Even more relevant is the ESP8266 at $2. The Pi Zero doesn't have WiFi, and has _way_ more computing power than you would need to run a few RGB LEDs.

Where can you buy a ESP8266 for $2? SparkFun has it for $6.95.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13678

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#197

Post by SEJeff » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 1:11 AM UTC

In slightly related news, the open source project, Home Assistant, that this blog post references, is an excellent open source "hub" for controlling the smart things.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#198

Post by bby » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 1:13 AM UTC

roymurdock wrote: post #74

mdip wrote: post #35

I'll never understand why companies make such customer hostile decisions. I can't see any upside to this and I can't imagine what the discussion looked like when implementing this decision. My (admittedly cynical) guess is that it was one part "We're fielding a lot of support questions on products that aren't ours and our malfunctioning" and two parts "Our customers will be more motivated to buy Philips Hue products…

Boss: We introduced Hue back in 2012 w/ a plan to lose money the first 3 years developing the hub, subsidizing partners, and getting our product out in the market. Tell me we're seeing a positive ROI now. Hue PM: Hue is profitable, but only marginally so. Our strategy of making up the initial investment on $60 per bulb hardware is being undermined by cheap 3rd party lighting fixtures. Plus we're incurring costs respo…

right on point my man

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#199

Post by underbluewaters » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 1:27 AM UTC

I've been a hue user for the past year.

1) Their lights/bridge are by far the most reliable IoT product I've used. A 9/10 where other products (Wink, GE, Lutron) are at best 3/10.

2) While 3rd party bulbs were sort of supported, it wasn't advertised. I've never seen it described as a interoperable Zigbee Light Link device.

3) My attempts at getting a GE bulb working were inconsistent, and even when it did work the brightness range and responsiveness were worse than the hue bulbs. I had constant disconnections where I had to re-add the bulb as well. I imagine many people blamed philips when in fact the problem was with the cheap 15.00 bulb. This is probably the reason for discontinuing unofficial support.

I don't like the fact that there's not a thriving range of interoperable, cheap, and high quality zigbee light link devices out there. I'm happy the Philips is focused on delivering a product that actually works, however. All of my other home automation purchases have ended with many wasted hours and eventual returns.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#200

Post by odbol » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 1:33 AM UTC

thescriptkiddie wrote: post #79

throwaway420 wrote: post #39

I was literally about to make a purchase but now I'll be considering other options. Good timing on your part hue. Do these idiot companies not learn anything from backlashes against Keurig and others?

Me too. Hue gear is absurdly expensive, but I was sold right up until this. To make matters worse, it looks like the apps I wanted to use the bulbs with (sleep as android, f.lux) only work with the Phillips hub. I hope the developers of those apps use this as an opportunity to learn about the dangers of vendor lock-in. This is just the FTDI debacle all over again.

If only there was other bridge hardware that could communicate in a more open manner. Unfortunately, Hue is one of the only companies that even OFFERS an SDK—most other systems are completely closed down.