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Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

home-assistant.io

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Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#31

Post by Laaw »

gregmac wrote: post #22

This is the Philips controller software (app) that is refusing to talk to or control 3rd party light bulbs. I don't really see this as being a problem. It's not the nicest thing, perhaps, but neither is 3rd party companies building bulbs (presumably by ripping off the design and protocol of Philip's bulbs), and then relying on Philips to build the software so they can actually be used. In other words, Philips is refu…

Would you be saying that if Google decided to block all non-google websites from working in Chrome?

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#32

Post by femto113 »

kefka wrote: post #17

I've ranted about this and the IoT and how we've came to it. IoT is awesome, and super, as long as you don't buy products that require to beg for your data from some website API. What makes more sense? Local device ->Internet ->Someone else's server(cloud) ->API ->Your cell/computer -or- Local Device ->Local controller I extensively use Node-Red and Apache NiFi both. Node-Red is built on Node.js and is a graphical fl…

Hue's hub works both ways, locally Smartphone -> Hub over WiFi (via a shared LAN connection, the Hub isn't it's own WAP), or remotely Smartphone -> Hue.com -> Hub over the internet. The remote mode has profoundly more lag, but also means you can turn on your lights from anywhere. The connection from Hub to the bulbs is always Zigbee. Unless/until Zigbee is built into smartphones this seems like a nearly ideal set up.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#33

Post by josho »

orionblastar wrote: post #10
endgame wrote: post #4

Defective by design.

DRM is defective by design. I first saw the Hue lightbulbs on SyFy with the 12 Monkeys show. It syncs up lighting to your show. I knew I didn't need that and it would be trouble later on. Now I know the devices lock out third party bulbs.

Let's start redefining DRM as what it truly is:

  Digital *Restrictions* Management

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#34

Post by et2o »

wvenable wrote: post #27
gregmac wrote: post #22

This is the Philips controller software (app) that is refusing to talk to or control 3rd party light bulbs. I don't really see this as being a problem. It's not the nicest thing, perhaps, but neither is 3rd party companies building bulbs (presumably by ripping off the design and protocol of Philip's bulbs), and then relying on Philips to build the software so they can actually be used. In other words, Philips is refu…

The slippery slope of "intellectual property" is so steep that even building interface-compatible products is now considered ripping something off. We've come a long way from the age of IBM compatibles and the PC revolution.

Except that at the time IBM tried to prevent people from making compatible PCs.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#35

Post by mdip »

I'll never understand why companies make such customer hostile decisions. I can't see any upside to this and I can't imagine what the discussion looked like when implementing this decision. My (admittedly cynical) guess is that it was one part "We're fielding a lot of support questions on products that aren't ours and our malfunctioning" and two parts "Our customers will be more motivated to buy Philips Hue products since they're already invested in the existing system".

The first argument is out the door because now they'll just get a lot of support questions around many more products that don't work. The second might happen for existing customers, but I'm now going to avoid this product as a future customer because compatibility is a feature, and for me, and I'd think anyone who is looking to purchase a tool that manages lighting/small electrics around the home, compatibility is easily the #1 or #2 feature. If there were a choice between a lightswitch that worked with a wide array of lightbulbs, and one that worked with only one company's bulbs, guess which one I'm buying?

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#36

Post by chc »

bitwize wrote: post #28
jcromartie wrote: post #20

Are there grounds for a lawsuit when a manufacturer pushes out an update to a product that intentionally degrades its feature set like this? This is no longer the same product that these users bought, it's effectively damaged by the update.

No, technically the third-party manufacturers were in violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, a federal offense with penalties up to five years in prison. From Philips' perspective, refusing to cooperate with those criminally infringing their IP is a feature, not a bug.

That's an interesting accusation. What part of the DMCA were they violating?

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#37

Post by ocdtrekkie »

fixermark wrote: post #21
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strongly recommend that any home automation device you buy has a direct method that it can be interfaced with and programmed in a local way. If a device is only programmable by a web API, rule it out. You may also wish to consider looking for devices which are based on a switch, rather than a bulb. Controllable bulbs do not play nice with the state of physical light switches, and in the case of multi-bulb fix…

Any recommendations for your favorite smart switch? I installed a few INSTEONS in my house and got bit badly when they just stopped communicating. The most frustrating thing is that there's no diagnostic tool, so I can't tell if the switches are broken or if their signals are getting sent but aren't understood by intended recipients. Next time I get deeply into home automation, I'll make sure to use a kit that includ…

I am using INSTEON myself. The bite there is that they :are: proprietary, though the PLM is openly programmable (I'm writing my own INSTEON controller) and not reliant on a web API of any kind. They can't disable functionality on me. I haven't had a bad experience :yet:, but I'd jump on a good open protocol with the same type of functionality. (RF/powerline dual-band is a huge perk, IMHO, and I prefer the non-use of Wi-Fi/Bluetooth.)

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#38

Post by draw_down »

gregmac wrote: post #22

This is the Philips controller software (app) that is refusing to talk to or control 3rd party light bulbs. I don't really see this as being a problem. It's not the nicest thing, perhaps, but neither is 3rd party companies building bulbs (presumably by ripping off the design and protocol of Philip's bulbs), and then relying on Philips to build the software so they can actually be used. In other words, Philips is refu…

> If not, well, that's why you shouldn't buy into closed, walled-garden products.

Thanks, professor.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#40

Post by sp332 »

gregmac wrote: post #22

This is the Philips controller software (app) that is refusing to talk to or control 3rd party light bulbs. I don't really see this as being a problem. It's not the nicest thing, perhaps, but neither is 3rd party companies building bulbs (presumably by ripping off the design and protocol of Philip's bulbs), and then relying on Philips to build the software so they can actually be used. In other words, Philips is refu…

The bulbs don't work without a hub. [Edit: doesn't have to be a Philips hub, but you still have to buy a new hub.] And Philips was really playing up interoperability and compatibility, so it's hard to look at that as a rip-off. Also it's not just "free software" - you have to pay $200 for the starter kit that includes the hub and 3 bulbs.
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