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Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#181

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

rz2k wrote: post #152
digi_owl wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If i recall correctly, that's because the basic signaling for USB charging is resistance based. Too high a resistance on the wire, and it may heat up (even melt the plastic wrapping) if they try to draw more than the default 500mA USB amount.

I believe that higher currents are negotiated with digital signalling. Does that allow for the two ends talk to each other to determine the performance of a cable between them? The Apple lightning cables themselves include a chip. Anyway, an interesting thing about USB C (and maybe 3.0, too) is that it can also negotiate 12 or 20 volts and even up to 5 amps. For the same wattage, a higher voltage will heat the cable…

USB 3 cables identify their current capacity through resistive values on the ID pin. Voltage negotiation is also permitted for USB 2 although I doubt it's used much outside of niche products designed to work together.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#184

Post by monocasa »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #120
monocasa wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, ostensibly, there's going to be thunderbolt devices soon which, while having a USB Type-C plug, won't work in a regular USB port despite the Type-C plug.

Source? Sure, it's theoretically possible that a TB3 5K@60Hz monitor won't work when plugged into a USB Type C port. But there would be no good reason for that, it should downgrade smoothly to either 5K@30Hz or 4K@60Hz.

I'm running off of the assumption that Thunderbolt continues to use a different physical layer (which it pretty much has to to go faster than USB 3.1), and is piggy backing on USB Type-C's "Alternate Mode" which lets you negotiate different physical layers that you have a transceiver for.

EDIT: Looks like my assumption is correct:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Type-C

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#186

Post by grecy »

digi_owl wrote: post #124

And they leave out the one thing that would be interesting, a wiring diagram. the C port is interesting in that it provides both USB pins and a set of pins that can be used for a number of functions (Displayport being its out of the gate use). If this leave the USB pins alone, and make use of the supplemental pins for Thunderbolt, there will be no port confusion. Especially as Tunderbolt is already set up to carry Di…

Wiring diagram and lots more details here http://www.anandtech.com/show/9331/intel-announces-thunderbo...

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#187

Post by pen2l »

jrockway wrote: post #77
lectrick wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Color me corrected.

It's not a big deal. No doubt both products were being developed long before they were announced, so Apple and Google were both ready to be the early adopter. Now I'm just waiting for something to connect to the Pixel via a Type C Type C connector, other than another Pixel ;)

How about a 2TB SSD with a performance rating of 850 MBps?

http://betanews.com/2015/06/01/sandisk-announces-2tb-ssd-in-...

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#188

Post by seanp2k2 »

atonse wrote: post #66
Roritharr wrote: post #53

I'm kinda disapointed about the whole Type-C scenario. Now when you've got a Type-C Port, you just don't know what it can do. It could be anything from a USB 2 Port, up to a USB 3.1 + 20A Power + Thunderbolt Port. You can't see this from looking at it, and Spec Sheets today have a problem of listing the version numbers of HDMI and DisplayPort Ports, I don't see them suddenly becoming very concise about this. The prom…

The logic is actually simple: If you're trying to plug in a USB device, just plug it in. It'll work, regardless of whether it's TB 3 or just plain USB 3. (update: this is probably for 99% of cases since USB is much more common than TB) If you're trying to plug in a thunderbolt 3 device, it's very likely you know if you have thunderbolt.

What's the case for Thunderbolt not just being USB 3.2? Now that it's using the exact same connector, it really seems like a solution in search of an actual use-case. I thought the external GPU thing would be amazing, except that totally failed to materialize, and I've even heard that it's being actively blocked.

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#189

Post by qnaal »

legulere wrote: post #176
Roritharr wrote: post #53

I'm kinda disapointed about the whole Type-C scenario. Now when you've got a Type-C Port, you just don't know what it can do. It could be anything from a USB 2 Port, up to a USB 3.1 + 20A Power + Thunderbolt Port. You can't see this from looking at it, and Spec Sheets today have a problem of listing the version numbers of HDMI and DisplayPort Ports, I don't see them suddenly becoming very concise about this. The prom…

The USB type-c cables are also just a mess. They can support 5 different USB PD profiles and can support either just USB 2.0 or USB 3.1. This means 10 different cables. The cable included when buying the new Macbook for instance only supports USB 2.0. People will soon wonder why their device is charging so slowly/having such low data transfer rates. Now there are 2 additional thunderbolt cables (powered and unpowered…

> an USB

how do you pronounce usb?

Re: Thunderbolt 3 embraces USB Type-C connector, doubles bandwidth to 40Gbps

#190

Post by ghshephard »

toothbrush wrote: post #135
ghshephard wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've got it backwards - if I'm reading this correctly, and you own a (for the sake of argument), 2016 MacBook Pro - your Thunderbolt 3 ports will support everything. USB/Thunderbolt are now using the same physical interface (no need for dongles), and Thunderbolt 3 will support USB 3.1. In the incredibly rare (will likely never be seen by an average consumer) scenario that you have some high-end equipment th…

I admit i'm not super clued-up on this, but i just looked up the new MacBook, it turns out that the sum total of its ports is one (1) USB-C and one (1) 3.5mm headphone jack. Does that mean i have to choose between charging, connecting a video projector, or using some USB hub i'll have to lug around to be able to read someone's presentation off a USB key while simultaneously connected to a projector? I wouldn't want t…

The new macbook is for people who are 100% focussed on mobility, and nothing else. That is a small niche of people. Think of it like an non-touch iPad with a keyboard, and you kind of have a sense of its purpose. The vision for the Macbook is "Wireless".

Just looking at your use cases though:

o Charging - the idea is that you have battery life in the 8+ hour range, so that when you are connected to a projector, you don't need to be charging.

o Reading a presentation off a USB key while connected to a projector - I've been doing that exact thing for the last 3 years, on an almost weekly basis - and 100% of the time I borrow the USB key for a second, and then hand it back to the owner (or put it in my USB wallet). The important thing there is sufficient local storage.

But yes - The MacBook is probably not for you, and it's definitely not for me.

I'm just psyched that my next MacBook Air (or whatever they call it - maybe I'll have to move upstream to the Macbook Pro if they dump the "Air" line) will have three USB capable ports instead of the current 2 + 1 Thunderbolt.

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