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Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

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Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Toyota debacle where they had buggy code but no evidence of anything other than driver error?

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1319897 http://www.edn.com/design/automotive/4423428/Toyota-s-killer...

That doesn't contradict what I said.

Even if the code failed in some situations I would comfortably bet that most cases were user error.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#182
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people decry using the prison system as a cure-all, it's usually for things like drugs or mental illness. In essence, why punish people for things that either don't harm others, or aren't their fault? You're applying this to a serious crime, at least manslaughter if not murder. If prison isn't appropriate for that, what is prison appropriate for? I imagine an argument could be made that prison is never the right…

and you are at fault That's the tricky phrase. How do you prove fault in a car collision, to the same degree that's required for a charge and conviction of manslaughter or murder? In New Jersey, we have "no-fault" laws for insurance, which basically means that when there is an accident there's no way to prove that either party is more at-fault than the other, so legally neither is at fault. In practice, both parties…

Increased insurance premiums aren't enough. That just punishes those too poor to handle the increased premiums. Everyone else just gets back on the road after the accident is "resolved" legally. A lifetime ban on driving or at least a ban of 10 years is far reasonable. Moving a multi-ton vehicle at speeds of ~40-70 mph is the ultimate privilege and it should be a privilege that is incredibly easy to lose.

All reckless driving citations should carry with them a minimum 1-5 year loss in driving privilege that no lawyer can get you out of.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe generally resisted the authoritarianism of the car, and lashed back against it fairly strongly. In the US, many cities were literally gutted in favor of making sure cars could move fast. Then we started designing with the assumption that anyone worth caring about had a car.

I wonder to what extent some of that is a fortunate combination of circumstances. Many European countries were quite positive on highways in the mid 20th century. But city centers mostly escaped having American-style freeways bulldozed through them, I think out of urban-preservation reasons more than anti-car or pro-transit sentiment. Same reason NYC ended up finally pushing back on Robert Moses's plans. So the freew…

Might you link to some of those photos for the curious?

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#184
post #169
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people decry using the prison system as a cure-all, it's usually for things like drugs or mental illness. In essence, why punish people for things that either don't harm others, or aren't their fault? You're applying this to a serious crime, at least manslaughter if not murder. If prison isn't appropriate for that, what is prison appropriate for? I imagine an argument could be made that prison is never the right…

Only a tiny majority of drivers will ever wilfully put cyclists at risk. Most people will genuinely believe that they are good drivers and nice people because that is exactly how everyone they know also behaves. There is simply no strong social pressure to be careful beyond a basic minimum standards. Cyclists are seen as breaking a basic social convention. But as a cyclist, you realise how basically selfish people ar…

Every driver on his cellphone or sending text messages is willfully putting cyclists at risk. Considering how common both those scenarios are, I would say that many if not the majority of drivers put cyclists (and pedestrians, other drivers and themselves) at risk on a regular basis.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the solution to unsafe roads is to throw everyone that is at-fault in an accident in jail. I understand the frustration cyclists have with auto traffic, but we've seen a million times that harsher penalties don't always have the intended outcome. And we have a habit in the US of using prison as the answer for every malady. Instead, I think the answer is better road design, separating cars and cyclists u…

> Instead, I think the answer is better road design, separating cars and cyclists using dedicated lanes, and automated vehicles. One way of keeping the status quo is to suggest things that are incredibly expensive and time consuming will never be done. Making driving more expensive however, does reduce traffic and fatalities.

    "Making driving more expensive however, does reduce traffic and fatalities."
Citation? I'd love to see exactly how this correlation looks.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

get back to me after you've been driving every day for ten years and we will see what your interpretation of "full attention"means. you can't be 100% vigilante 100% of the time.

Get back to me after you've been cycling around autos every day for 10 years and we will see what your interpretation of "full attention" means.

Probably what you're not experiencing 100% of the time. You have plenty of examples of cars being bad, but I'm sure you also have examples of cars not being bad. Of not trying to hit you and of giving you a wide berth when you're riding your bike.

But on the note of your bike, full attention includes things other than you. It includes the opposite lane, the speed limit, people behind them that might not stop if he hits his brakes and so on.

As a side note, there's a lot of sharp emotions directed at what people are saying and the verbage people are choosing is, I think, unnecessarily harsh and in some cases mocking. We need to tone that back.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#187
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to see some numbers on how many deaths are due to bad pedestrian behavior like that. Anecdotally, I've never encountered that sort of thing from a pedestrian while driving, but I've almost been run down several times by drivers not obeying the law while I was legally crossing the street with the right of way. All it would take is crossing the street at the wrong time with a walk signal without checking both…

> Anecdotally, I've never encountered that sort of thing from a pedestrian while driving, You must not live anywhere near Seattle. Even after fourteen years of dealing with attention-not-paying pedestrians who believe it to be their deity-given right to walk into the street at any moment without even a sideways glance at traffic conditions, I'm still amazed that more of them don't bounce off of car hoods. > All it wo…

My instance was in Bellevue, funny enough.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#188
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The automobile is built as a requirement to live in society rather than something that complement and argumented our lifestyle."

Which is a problem precisely because cars are so dangerous.

Even if they weren't dangerous, it's a shame that cars are so forced and that it's so hard to walk around in many areas.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can we climb down from the overheated rhetoric? It smells like propaganda. And your comment smells like shilling. If we're making baseless accusations.

Shilling for who? I think you're being ridiculous. And if you're being ridiculous on purpose, you're not making whatever point you think you are and need to stop posting.

Yup. I entirely agree with you that AnimalMuppet's post was ridiculous.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure about that? I read about people stripping all the airbags out of new Civics and getting dramatically better gas mileage.

An airbag weighs 10 lbs max, usually 5-8 lbs. Anybody who removes this for "performance" or "fuel savings" is a blithering idiot who should not be allowed near a motor vehicle.

I'm not sure I buy your 10# claim, but even if that's accurate there are six of them in a modern sedan and that's not a trivial amount of weight for a car.
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