Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#11

Post by downplay » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 11:42 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #6

"Murder Machines"? Come on. Not all deaths are murder. We Americans have this idea that nothing bad should ever happen, that we should find a way to prevent it. It's a goal to shoot for, certainly. But calling it murder if you don't reach that goal? No. Can we climb down from the overheated rhetoric? It smells like propaganda.

In 1885 Karl Benz construct the first automobile. It had three wheels, like an invalid car, And ran on alcohol, like many drivers. Since then about seventeen million people have been killed by them In an undeclared war; And the whole of the rest of the world is in danger of being run over Due to squabbles about their oil. -Heathcote Williams (Autogeddon extract).

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#12

Post by kiba » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 11:42 PM UTC

abstractbill wrote: post #8

TylerE wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you WANT it to deform. A stiff structure would increase deceleration on the occupants - in addition to being more likely to get in accident in the first place - additional weight will cause the vehicle to brake less rapidly, be more likely to roll over, etc, in addition to reducing efficiency.

I've often wondered about this. Instead of just having a single thin metal skin that deforms, wouldn't it be even better to have multiple skins sandwiching a kind of honeycomb structure? That way you have even more stuff to deform and absorb the impact.

If there's a way to increase safety, I am sure that they had thought of it.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#13

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 11:42 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #6

"Murder Machines"? Come on. Not all deaths are murder. We Americans have this idea that nothing bad should ever happen, that we should find a way to prevent it. It's a goal to shoot for, certainly. But calling it murder if you don't reach that goal? No. Can we climb down from the overheated rhetoric? It smells like propaganda.

Also, cars are not killing people. Drivers are. Unless we're talking about self-driving cars that spontaneously turn themselves on, back down the driveway, and mow down pedestrians on their own.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#14

Post by saraid216 » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 11:43 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #6

"Murder Machines"? Come on. Not all deaths are murder. We Americans have this idea that nothing bad should ever happen, that we should find a way to prevent it. It's a goal to shoot for, certainly. But calling it murder if you don't reach that goal? No. Can we climb down from the overheated rhetoric? It smells like propaganda.

> Can we climb down from the overheated rhetoric? It smells like propaganda.

And your comment smells like shilling. If we're making baseless accusations.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#15

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 11:44 PM UTC

bunderbunder wrote: post #9

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #6

"Murder Machines"? Come on. Not all deaths are murder. We Americans have this idea that nothing bad should ever happen, that we should find a way to prevent it. It's a goal to shoot for, certainly. But calling it murder if you don't reach that goal? No. Can we climb down from the overheated rhetoric? It smells like propaganda.

Murder? No. Negligent homicide? Yes.

Agreed.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#16

Post by bagels » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 11:47 PM UTC

abstractbill wrote: post #8

TylerE wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you WANT it to deform. A stiff structure would increase deceleration on the occupants - in addition to being more likely to get in accident in the first place - additional weight will cause the vehicle to brake less rapidly, be more likely to roll over, etc, in addition to reducing efficiency.

I've often wondered about this. Instead of just having a single thin metal skin that deforms, wouldn't it be even better to have multiple skins sandwiching a kind of honeycomb structure? That way you have even more stuff to deform and absorb the impact.

Right now, you have multiple skins sandwiching air.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#17

Post by jstanley » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 11:47 PM UTC

kiba wrote: post #12

abstractbill wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often wondered about this. Instead of just having a single thin metal skin that deforms, wouldn't it be even better to have multiple skins sandwiching a kind of honeycomb structure? That way you have even more stuff to deform and absorb the impact.

If there's a way to increase safety, I am sure that they had thought of it.

So you're saying we're at the theoretical optimum of car safety and that there are no possible improvements?

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#18

Post by bdamm » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 11:49 PM UTC

kiba wrote: post #12

abstractbill wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often wondered about this. Instead of just having a single thin metal skin that deforms, wouldn't it be even better to have multiple skins sandwiching a kind of honeycomb structure? That way you have even more stuff to deform and absorb the impact.

If there's a way to increase safety, I am sure that they had thought of it.

High performance aircraft and cars already do this. They thought of it - and it's expensive.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#19

Post by panic » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 11:49 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #13

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #6

"Murder Machines"? Come on. Not all deaths are murder. We Americans have this idea that nothing bad should ever happen, that we should find a way to prevent it. It's a goal to shoot for, certainly. But calling it murder if you don't reach that goal? No. Can we climb down from the overheated rhetoric? It smells like propaganda.

Also, cars are not killing people. Drivers are. Unless we're talking about self-driving cars that spontaneously turn themselves on, back down the driveway, and mow down pedestrians on their own.

People don't intentionally mow down pedestrians. Our current system, which includes both cars and drivers acting with the best of intentions, kills huge numbers of people each year. Instead of trying to assign blame to a particular actor in the system, we should be thinking about ways to change the system as a whole so it kills fewer people.

Re: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year

#20

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 11:49 PM UTC

lutorm wrote: post #10

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #6

"Murder Machines"? Come on. Not all deaths are murder. We Americans have this idea that nothing bad should ever happen, that we should find a way to prevent it. It's a goal to shoot for, certainly. But calling it murder if you don't reach that goal? No. Can we climb down from the overheated rhetoric? It smells like propaganda.

Until the same attention is placed on traffic deaths as on deaths by other causes, it's hardly "overheated".

I agree that we should pay the attention to traffic deaths that the death toll warrants.

But don't call accidental deaths murder. That's the "overheated" part. Murder has a definition, and traffic deaths aren't it.

Even if you are a fervent advocate of traffic safety, this kind of manipulative rhetoric does you no favors. It makes people tune you out as a demagogue.

(Why do I call this "manipulative"? Because it tries to play on peoples' view of the horror of murder to make people realize the horror of traffic deaths. Traffic deaths are horrible, but the technique is still manipulative.)