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We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

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Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#181

Post by 15155 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #99
deet wrote: post #10

Imagine if you couldn't buy a lathe unless it refused to make a baseball bat (which could be used for hitting people). Or if you couldn't buy scissors (because they could cut brake lines). Or if you couldn't buy a car (because it could be used to run someone over). And if all of those checked with the government before functioning. It's almost like maybe instead you should just ban the undesirable end action, enforce…

In fact, right up front in TFA they point out that California already bans manufacturing firearms without a license. This 3D printer regulation is entirely duplicative and unnecessary.

Which definitely fails Bruen.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#183

Post by kube-system »

paradoxyl wrote: post #112
gdiamos wrote: post #85

My kindergartner has a 3D printer. I got a call from the school principal. She said “another parent called and said your son 3D printed a gun and brought it to school”. I looked at the print history. It was a tiny toy mandalorian figurine holding a blaster pistol in his hand. I bought my son a bigger 3D printer and told him to stop playing with that boy.

If you have the resources, you could also serve her with papers. IANAL, but that arguably is libel, defamation, harassment and so incredibly insane that it deserves a severe legal smackdown.

No, that is not even remotely close to qualifying for any of those things.

The principal merely said someone made a call about it, they didn't present that claim as a fact, they didn't publish it, they didn't act with malice or negligence, and they caused no damages. A statement would have to meet all of those qualifications to be libel or defamation. It meets none.

Harassment is repeated or continuing communication that serves no purpose other than bothering the person. This was a single phone call was made for the purpose of investigating an alleged school incident. It meets none of the qualifications to be harassment.

Our laws do not prevent anyone from discussing claims by other people that may or may not be true. It would be silly if they did.

There is absolutely nothing illegal nor unusual for school staff to call parents to investigate concerning claims made by other students or parents. Doing so is exactly how misunderstandings in these situations are cleared up.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#184

Post by goatlover »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #141
paradoxyl wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have the resources, you could also serve her with papers. IANAL, but that arguably is libel, defamation, harassment and so incredibly insane that it deserves a severe legal smackdown.

So their child was accused of 3D printing a gun and taking it in to school, the parent confirmed online that, yes, their child did 3D print a gun and take it to school ... I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve. It's not libel, it's a misunderstanding.

Is it a gun in a meaningful sense if it can't fire a projectile? How could anyone be concerned about that? What if the kid brought toy soldiers to school? Would that be bringing guns to school?

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#185

Post by Auracle »

RossBencina wrote: post #156
xbar wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the downvoters, I'm genuinely curious: do you believe a narrative that the US has no gun control laws? Sometimes I wonder if that is what people outside the US think.

I'll try to answer as accurately as I can. The narrative that I read into the media that I consume is that (1) the US has ineffective gun control laws, and (2) that there is widespread availability of a variety of guns and ammunition to anyone who wants it. I believe that gun ownership is a constitutional right in the US. I was aware that only some states are "open carry." I am not surprised to be corrected that some…

> that there is widespread availability of a variety of guns and ammunition to anyone who wants it

Felons (largely) aren't allowed to own guns. There are other restrictions as well. Apart from that, yes, in most states most people are allowed to have firearms.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#186

Post by qwerpy »

gdiamos wrote: post #109
qwerpy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I bought my son a bigger 3D printer and told him to stop playing with that boy. I can't think of a better response to that situation. I'm going to use it when appropriate for my own kids when the time comes. Also - your kindergartner is autonomously searching for 3d printer models and executing prints at that age? That's awesome. Curious what 3d printer and what mechanism he uses to search and initiate prints.

He started with tinkercad and thingiverse. I tried basic elegoo and bambu printers. He can’t read very well but he likes dragging shapes around on a tablet. He would ask me to find shapes using the search engines then he mixes them together or reshapes them. I would add them to his history. This is why I was surprised to hear about 3D printed guns. I was quite sure there wasn’t anything like that in the history. It w…

Nice. My kids are still at the stage where they can only request specific objects and colors but I can’t wait to gradually involve them more and more in the process of model design, slicing, and printing.

There are valid concerns with 3d printing guns but I expect adults to be able to let kids be kids when it comes to something like a Star Wars figurine.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#187

Post by tangotaylor »

azov wrote: post #46

Is somebody organizing a rally to oppose this?

The plan is to show up at the Public Safety Committee hearing on Tue June 30th. 8:30 a.m. - 1021 O Street, Room 2200

Louis Rossmann and David from 3D Printing Nerd should be there. They were at the last one on June 23rd and planned to show up again.

https://spsf.senate.ca.gov/agenda

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#189

Post by crtified »

somenameforme wrote: post #136
crtified wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It was a good discussion topic about why adults get so bothered by things that look like guns. I think that's because parent-child is the strongest bond known to humanity, so anything symbolic of (or against) child safety evokes the strongest emotional responses we can ever have. Guns, when loaded, are one of the extremely few consumer objects capable of being held in a child's hand and, with a physical ease similar…

School shootings are extremely rare and so I was curious how it could be that large. The nuance is that those pages are not just listing school shootings as commonly understood/feared, but any shooting involving a school in any way. So for instance from the 2010s [1] page you get teacher shooting principle, biology professor (female no less!) shooting other professors, guy killing himself in a university library afte…

We can certainly pick apart any given data point.

It doesn't change the overarching sentiment that guns are a subject that attracts considerably larger attention in the USA than in any other 'developed' nation.

Pick any number of metrics - frequency of incidents, size and power of advocacy groups, political debate, ownership levels, media coverage, constitutional significance - and that pattern is clear.

So my [here refined] point remains : there is no (developed nation) where guns are a greater part of public discourse than the USA. Therefore, when we find ourselves questioning "why are some USA citizens quite passionate about the debate?" (especially where their children are concerned), I don't think we need to look too far for the answer.

That is true for both sides of the debate.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#190

Post by jason_oster »

somenameforme wrote: post #173
defrost wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to be fair, other countries also have listed as school shootings any event that involved shooting and a school; eg: Australia with a population ~ 15x smaller than the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_Au... has a total of six (6) incidents this century (since 2000) .. somewhat less than a factor of 15 less than the US for that same 26 year period. Note that three of the six incidents of th…

I think the connotation of a school shooting is somebody going to a school and shooting numerous students in a mostly random fashion with the intention of creating terror. That's why guns are so scary in this context - it's trivial to kill a person with a gun, a knife, a car, or a brick, but it's much easier to kill 10 people with a gun than it is with the other instruments - well except perhaps a car. But when you a…

> but it's much easier to kill 10 people with a gun than it is with the other instruments - well except perhaps a car.

Or explosives. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

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